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I HATE |
solly |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
hwg |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
spy |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
sniper |
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27% |
[ 11 ] |
medic |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
scout |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
engy |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
demo |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
pyro |
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10% |
[ 4 ] |
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Total Votes : 40 |
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Computer Registered User
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: Dah A T L Posts: 1336
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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4 soldiers? How about 4 scouts with concs ready.
I know your an old school TF'r but seriously aiming conc'ed with the RPG isn't that easy. In fact it isn't really easy at all. And as for your theory about just aiming a little high and right, that's also wrong. When conc'ed all it does is create the 'illusion' that your aim is moving. Your view and your crosshairs move in a figure 8, however your actual aim remains unchanged. This is why some HW use tracers, b/c one will move with the conc in the figure 8 and the other will stay in the natural aiming position.
Soldies do have to aim, and not only do they have to aim, they have to anticipate. Your number of rockets is limited and therefore it's crucial for a good soldier to be as accurate as possible with the ones that he has. And using 2 rockets to kill 'most classes'.... yea that might be true if your talking about face shots but infact it takes 2 rockets to kill snipers/engies/scouts and atleast 3 to kill any other class assuming their are at full health and your not smacking them in the face every single time.
Moreover, they are also the second slowest class in the game, so running away from a fight is absolutely not an option. Additionally the solly secondary grenade is probably the least useful secondary grenade of all the other classes (except for maybe napalms, caltrops are primary, not secondary).
And back to the beating 4 sollies..... who said you have to kill them???? Fragging is not the key to this game. capping IS. You dont' have to kill the 4 soldiers, just get around them, and if they are as spread out as you said they were, then your really only avoiding 1 or 2 and if you can't do that then an 'overpowered' class isn't the issue. _________________ "Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
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BitterBeerFace Registered User
Joined: 17 Jan 2002 Location: Mankato, MinneSNOWta Posts: 1416
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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How to counter a soldier... it depends on the location... tight, enclosed spaces, HW or Demo works well for me... out in the open, I choose medic... As with any class, a really good player will make it extremely hard to deal with them, but there are always ways around it |
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CyC0Dad Registered User
Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1382
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Computer wrote: |
And as for your theory about just aiming a little high and right, that's also wrong. When conc'ed all it does is create the 'illusion' that your aim is moving. Your view and your crosshairs move in a figure 8, however your actual aim remains unchanged.
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Soldies do have to aim, and not only do they have to aim, they have to anticipate.
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And using 2 rockets to kill 'most classes'.... yea that might be true if your talking about face shots but infact it takes 2 rockets to kill snipers/engies/scouts and atleast 3 to kill any other class assuming their are at full health and your not smacking them in the face every single time.
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The aim high and to the right is a perspective thing since the figure 8 starts in the lower left corner this is just a start point from which you can fire right away and hit what you had been aiming at. As a sniper if my red dot is on you when I shoot conced you get hit. Maybe it is just experience, but I can hit with the shotgun when conced as well by starting in the top right.
Yes, soldiers aim, but what do they aim at...a pretty big target area in reality. Yes they anticipate so they are aiming for an AREA. They DON'T have to hit what they aim at to inflict major damage. I will try one more time to explain the difference when I talk about aim. I have to anticipate your movement when I snipe or use the shotgun. If I'm off a little I miss you and no damage is done. If the soldier guesses wrong he can still do major damage with a miss. Most soldiers just aim low on the light classes and send you flying and then shoot where you are coming down for a combo fall and splash damage. Doesn't matter if you hit in front of them below them or behind them or even above them....still does splash damage if you are at least close to where they land. How hard is that ? What type of precision aim was required there ? If you don't get what I'm saying by now, I give up, it isn't worth my time.
As for the classes add demos, medics and spies. I can kill all of them in 2 shots NEAR them most of the time maybe 3. With 4 soldiers there most clases are dead in 2 or less rockets per soldier. Maybe the real problem is I don't see how being one of 4 soldiers is fun or even a remote challange to someone. Guess I'm just cut from a different cloth as they say. |
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Warhammer Server Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2001 Location: Atlantuh, Jawjuh Posts: 1226
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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CyCoDad wrote: | Talk about Lame, the soldier doesn't even have to hit you to kill you. He is faster than a HW almost as heavily healthed and armoured and doesn't even have to aim |
Whoa, doesn't have to aim?? I beg to differ! The soldier has the slowest weapon in the game except for the railgun. I find the hardest part about playing soldier hitting a fast moving target because the blast radius of a rocket is actually pretty small. It's the good soldiers that can anticipate where their opponent is likely to step next, and lead them appropriately. Once you can get this technique down though, solly is hard to beat. |
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Computer Registered User
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: Dah A T L Posts: 1336
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I will also make this my parting shot.
The real issue I suppose is this. To compensate for the soldiers wide area they can attack and they amount of damage they can do is countered by the speed at which the rockets move. Most of the time they are avoidable. Albeit when there are 4 of them avoiding them can be quite difficult.
Soldies like every other class has their strengths. And all class has that one thing that you hate that makes them that much better. The key to beating some good soldiers is just to avoid them. Killing them isn't the issue, capping flags and getting points for you team is. Duking it out with a solly to see who can kill who isn't important to the team goal. _________________ "Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
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Whatever Registered User
Joined: 16 Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 297
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, just my two cents, but I voted for soldiers. They are the most balanced class in the game, and when you get several good soldiers on one team, they can be very hard to get past. I hate going up against players like Trigger and Warhammer, as I know I will get killed a lot.
I think that aiming for a soldier is different. I am NOT saying it is easy to do, but there is an advantage with splash, and that is a balance for having only 4 rockets in the tube. It just seems that most good soldiers are very good at reloading often to offset that and then it seems like they are too tough to beat.
As for spam from demos, I admit to doing that at times. I am no Albino or Raphx, but I won't shy away from throwing 6 pipes very quickly around a corner. It is no different than another class throwing a grenade in the death room or over the balcony in Avanti. A lot of classes can spam, but demos get all the flak. What should a demo do, try to hit everybody precisely with their pipes? Demos are a big part of Avanti, especially on O against SGs, and I am always happy to have Raphx and Albino on my team.
I have to mention pipe laying too, as it is a viable option in game. I will use it to guard a flag near a cap sometimes. I love how people complain and say that is so boring...the thing is that you are not playing that way, so why worry about it. I could say that same thing about soldiers who stay near the cap points or engis who build SGs. It is a part of the game, so there is no reason to rile people up with opinions like that. I hate snipers who shoot me a dozen times in a row, but that does not mean I am going to get all mad and post about how lame that is. I will just make it a point to kill that sniper at least once!
Do that same thing to Raphx. He loves it when you do that...I know I get a kick out of killing him near his pipes.
LOL...later all. _________________ Been chasing since May 2001!
Play under the names...Darlon Jeel, The Ghost, The Spirit, and <NSA>Whatever |
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CyC0Dad Registered User
Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1382
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Computer wrote: |
The key to beating some good soldiers is just to avoid them. Killing them isn't the issue, capping flags and getting points for you team is. Duking it out with a solly to see who can kill who isn't important to the team goal. |
I never even implied looking to kill them. Can't avoid them when they are on D though. You either take them out or try to get passed them but it is pretty frustrating when there is a group of soldiers.
You people just don't seem to get the difference between aiming and shooting a rocket into an area. If you aim at me and I move your miss still causes damage so AIMING isn't required for a soldier. Shoot NEAR me and you still cause damage, that isn't aiming.... |
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Computer Registered User
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: Dah A T L Posts: 1336
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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well since you returned to the conversation I guess that I will do the same. I hope you aren't getting angry b/c I think this is civil so far and I would like to keep it that way
Now this splash area isn't as gigantic as you make it out to be. They a very balanced class and they happen to be particularly lethal when in the hands of skilled players.
Previously you mentioned that not all of the soldiers could be hit my a single conc which I took to imply that they were not all guarding the same area. Therefore I also assumed that since there were only for and they were spread out, atleast two fo them had to be somewhere other than where you were going. Leaving 2 soldiers to deal with, I'll also assume that you aren't on a team by yourself and there is some kind of coverfire, if you are completely incappable of avoiding them under this condition..........
And you are right, we don't have to aim perfectly. But these rockets aren't moving at light speed and can be avoided. And even if you do get hit, try and be in a position that the splash will send you in the direction you wanna go, or get really close to him so he either shoots you in the face, which won't splash you back, and do damage to himself. _________________ "Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
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rAT bOY Registered User
Joined: 25 Sep 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 442
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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I say: "Always have backup on O!" You can get past a lot. Go in one by one. Conc at least one solly, trick them by running forward and then suddenly backing up so they miss, and then HH to the flag. Just make sure you don't get right in front of them. If you die, you have your backup waiting.
But really good soldiers block entranceways, like in 2fort. One blocks the spiral, one blocks the elev. They hear you coming, so they prime a grenade and get ready. So it'd be hard to conc them, but it'd be really good if you conc them out of the way. If he's out of the way, he has a lower chance of hitting you. Just use the backup move to trick the soldier if he has good anticipation. Soldiers aren't that annoying, although they are the best class to have on defense. |
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SoDum Registered User
Joined: 27 Apr 2002 Location: NY Posts: 635
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Four soldiers? Piece of cake if there arn't any Choke points. I avoid maps like that like the plague though... So i wouldn't know.
Option one: Conc past them, conc back out. Simple enough.
Option two: Get four HWs and smoke those foos!
Option three: Get one soldier to draw thier fire while a lighter class slips behind, like a medic. Then the medic can infect them. (which makes four dead sollys since everyone will of course kill themselves.)
Quote: | That conc'ed soldier is only going to get you if you run straight into him |
That's a pretty awful soldier. I've been working on my conced aim, and so long as you don't aim up and down much, it's just like firing normally. I've hit scouts running at full speed while conced. It's not hard. _________________
Stillness of Body, Focus of thought, oneness of spirit. These are the virtues of a concer.
The only man to boycott happiness! |
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BigCaulk69 Registered User
Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Location: the ATX and H-town Posts: 264
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Tell me what can beat 4 soldiers on defense ?
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i hate to beat a dead horse since you are taking a lot of heat, but dad you know about the game and you should know that 4 meds on offense would take out 4 sollys on defense. avanti is different cuz its one of the few maps where you dont get secondary grenades. but meds throwing concs will certainly distrupt and clear out an area really fast. we aren't strictly talking about avanti, if we are then i am a dumb dumb rock for not realizing it. if you are telling me 4 sollys would dominate 4 meds on warpath then i think you need to re-evaluate that thought.
and also the splash damage just isnt that big. and if you dont want to deal with then the splash damage med can just pick away at the solly from long range with the supershotty and dodge rockets since the med is fast. the supershotty is mean and i learned that lesson from one of your favorite characters worldspawn.
also by saying that the solly is almost as well armored as the HW is like saying the med is almost as well armored as the solly.
i dunno there are tons of other things i had to say, but thats all that stuck out in my mind right now... |
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OS Registered User
Joined: 05 Nov 2001 Location: Sydney Guild: <TVB> Posts: 1574
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:12 am Post subject: |
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It depends on what class I'm playing.
HWGuy - Pyro.
Sniper - Soldier.
Engie - Spy.
**Scout - HWGuy **
These are just a few examples, but it also depends on what map it is as well. |
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CyC0Dad Registered User
Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1382
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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BigCaulk69 wrote: | Quote: |
Tell me what can beat 4 soldiers on defense ?
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i hate to beat a dead horse since you are taking a lot of heat, but dad you know about the game and you should know that 4 meds on offense would take out 4 sollys on defense. avanti is different cuz its one of the few maps where you dont get secondary grenades. but meds throwing concs will certainly distrupt and clear out an area really fast. we aren't strictly talking about avanti, if we are then i am a dumb dumb rock for not realizing it. if you are telling me 4 sollys would dominate 4 meds on warpath then i think you need to re-evaluate that thought.
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I certainly don't feel any heat. I have an opinion and others have their opinions and all is civil I think. I know I'm not getting upset or anything. Maybe a few sollys are getting upset because they don't want to accept they are a bigger NEWB class than HW j/k....
Sorry I should have been more clear...I'm talking about Avanti, specifically cap 3 and the soldiers were spaced out but still defending the same general area. I also had minimal help on offense which made things worse and yes the problem there is I have to wait for the concs and don't have the patience required.
The closest I got was as a medic and the most I fragged was as a HW. The dialogue started when I was told how lame I was switching to a NEWB class like HW and I started explaining how Soldier was even more of a NEWB class and how I hated that the soldier limit on Avanti wasn't 2 like the other classes. I would have done better against 4 HW
Either way the soldier is the hardest class to get past when they are on D and as JR backed me up on, it isn't that hard to hit a scout or med while conced. Oh and more power to you if you think you are aiming with the rocket launcher |
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Computer Registered User
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: Dah A T L Posts: 1336
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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CyCoDad wrote: |
Oh and more power to you if you think you are aiming with the rocket launcher |
That sounds really condecending ( I know I spelled that wrong) and even more sarcastic.
I guess I'll just either keep playing my n00b class b/c it's so easy and I dont have to aim, or maybe I should try and play something that requires a little more skill, maybe spy. _________________ "Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
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BigCaulk69 Registered User
Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Location: the ATX and H-town Posts: 264
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Either way the soldier is the hardest class to get past when they are on D and as JR backed me up on, it isn't that hard to hit a scout or med while conced. Oh and more power to you if you think you are aiming with the rocket launcher |
yeah i will agree with you that 4 good soldiers on avanti can dominate a game. but that is only one map. and i just dont understand how you think you dont aim with the RL. i think you are thinking too simple about the aiming part. when i am aiming with it i am aiming to shoot the person in a certain direction so that my team will have an easier time kill that person. i mean if you dont believe that it takes aim to make sure that you pop that person up in the air in a certain direction from a distance then i dunno what to say.
its like saying nothing takes any aim if you want to deny that because you have to hit the person in a certain spot while anticipating where they will be when your rocket will hit. nothing takes any aim if you want to say that takes no aim. sniper rifle doesnt take aim, shotty doesnt take aim, nail gun? aim? HA! just spray it everywhere. no aim there. no but seriously...i think the supershotty is easier aim than the RL and yes you are right that 4 sollys on avanti will dominate 4 of another class on defense. |
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