Continuation of Neo-TF debate (from JD tips)

Greebo · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:09 pm Post subject:

Demanted Avenger wrote:
Sorry Frag, I gotta side with the Cycofamily on this one. As a spy, you no longer enjoy roaming the maps with impunity. The neo mod saw to this. You can and will find a way to deal with this mod I am sure. You are a stellar player at many classes but because of this mod, you may need to learn a heavier class that can deal with the MG's. Let the voting booth on theville main page speak for the masses. Last time I looked, 42%+ want no changes to the mod. I do feel you inadvertenly had something to do with this because of your mad spy skillz. People just wanted a more level playing field.

On a personal note, Everyone knows I play engie alot. Used to play it on D and O. Now I play Soldier, Demo or HW on O because of the MG's. I think Demo has an advantage over the other classes because of the pipebombs and mirvs. I suggest as an offensive spy, you could help out alot more by keeping the nmy away from the heavier classes while letting them deal with the MG's. I know the temptation to slip behind the nmy lines and creating havoc must be a hard to deal with. I know you can overcome this adversity. You are too good.

Just my $0.02
=========================================

Me:
The point is that a spies abilities are effectively nil with neo-tf's mg's. Effectively this makes them nothing more than a slow chameleon like scout.

What's so great about a stalled game in warpath or avanti?

Nothing, nil, nada.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.godfrey5/
"Is there anything worse, than handing a jar of piss to an attractive woman?....And it's *still* warm!" - Billy Connolly

[ This Message was edited by: Greebo on 2001-12-04 19:09 ]

Demented Avenger · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:31 pm Post subject:

I guess you missed my piont. It was learning new tactics to DEAL with MG's. Obviously a disguised spy has no chance against a tesla coil just like a scout has no chance against a fully loaded SG. However, good scouts can take out SG's from a distance. The gist of my post was that spies can learn new teamtactics to help out the heavier classes take out MG's such as keeping nmy spies from stabbing the Demos and HW's in the back or medics infecting as they make their attack. My other point is that spies cannot run the map willy nilly anymore and in my book, that is a good thing.

_________________
I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.

Greebo · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:57 pm Post subject:

But the entire POINT of a spy is that he can get close to be effective - a long range spy is useless.
Yes you can use the other classes - but it still means spies are useless.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"

CyC0Dad · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:03 pm Post subject:

ROOFCUTTER · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:09 pm Post subject:

Well as long as we have both than I guess I can live with either one. Sometimes It's fun with them and sometimes not.
I miss the pre-neo and extra gernades days sometimes also.
BR's server has a basic Avanti. If you want good clean man against man battles go there. If you want our TV1 fair, basic with gernades go there.
If you like all the whistles and bells well go to the ones with them.
The one thing that would make a difference with out changing any thing is the Engineer count. Limit the Engineers based on the amount of sg's, mg's they can set up. If we had 4 Engineers before neo we should have only 2 now. No net change in their individiual fire power but not an excess of auto killers in the map either.

If they had a way to detonate the soldiers rockets on command now that would be sweet.

Frag the old days are gone

Unfortunetly you and I Better get used to it.

_________________
Nusquam Profundus Scilicet Nusquam

Famous quote, by whats his name...

[ This Message was edited by: ROOFCUTTER on 2001-12-04 20:10 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ROOFCUTTER on 2001-12-04 20:41 ]

CyC0Dad · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:13 pm Post subject:

As a spy your job is to infiltrate and create chaos or destroy defenses. It actually becomes a little easier for a spy to get past the defenses during the chaos that ensues from a combined effort on Offense and Defense.

Yes, if your team is a bunch of Newbs that attack 1 at a time you will most likely loose with or without MGs.

It is painfully obvious that this is a Love it or Hate it Mod. As such it shouldn't be on all servers, but I would like to point out how busy TV3 and TV4 have been lately. Even a couple regulars were "forced" to play there the other day because there wasn't enough people on TV1 ? Coincidence ? Maybe .

FragFailure · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:30 pm Post subject:

The problem with airstrike seems to be that it's a very limited tool. A mg doesn't even need to be upgraded. There's certain maps where the mod doesn't fit in imo. It's my preference to avoid it at all costs. I just it's cheap way for people to not detect spies. In fact I got whooped by YPAWOM and co on 1 just a few minutes ago (45-36 with a cap.) Maybe I'm a step slow or something.

_________________
Yes, I'm still around

- PWG member 2001
- TVB founder and leader 2001-2004
- The Ville's Vegas Bashes I-V
- T.V.L. (Ville TFC League)
- The Originator of the Off-Topic Posts

Twisted29 · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:38 pm Post subject:

I've had no problem taking down mgs as a spy...Its just an excuse to use the nail-gun more

ou just have to be a lot more careful about where you go, peer around corners..that sort of stuff. Of course this makes you stand out more..but thats a whole other post. And yes, I think the ntf promotes more teamplay because its easier to take to the mgs down if more than one person works on it. This is not to say if defending the mod. I still try to avoid the ntf servers...but there ARE some good things about it.

And my 2 cents about the airstrikes...glorified spam. You cant get close enough to emplacments to take them out, all you can use it for is to suppress high traffic areas. Which is referred to as spam in the ville ive been told...

Bakuryu · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:09 pm Post subject:

I don't know how you can say that the mod is remotely fair in any way. A team of 3 engys, a spy, sniper, medic and Hw could stop an army of people from advancing. All you need is skilled people playing. So far we've been lucky because of the inherent lack of skilled players working together on the same team, but I guarantee you that if such an event would occur you would be getting a ridiculous amount of flames and anger from the players. True, any class could charge and wipe some of them out or hit them from a distance, but it takes about a second to build an mg and have it upgraded. And I also am positive that truly good engys make full use of the sentry, MG, dispenser, and EMP grenade. The advantages it offers one person have thrown the balance of the game out the window. Plus, only three classes actually benefit from this mod. The engy gets a new toy that wipes out everything, the sniper gets a perfect defense system, and the spy gets some missles to fall from the sky. What about the effectiveness of the other classes? Soldiers and pyros can no longer terrorize snipers, spies get mowed down as they frantically call for an airstrike some jerkoff used to kill one person instead of for clearing a cp, medics can upgrade dispensers (oooh, look at the symbol on top, don't I feel special), and the rest of the classes only "gain" the ability to upgrade multiguns (gain is said with heavy sarcasm because it is a detrement to the game). Perhaps if certain aspects of the mod were removed (aka all but the med dispenser, which actually encourages and helps teams) fewer people would complain about it. I know you can take off certain parts of it, because the snipers have no flash grenades anymore (because they caused problems with the servers...how ironic). If anyone wants to take a break from this NTF stuff, stop by the BR server. We've had several regs visit and my clanmates and I have shown them the joy of Push

. Seriously though, consider at least lowering the amount of NTF servers (I know there are 5 villes but having 3 of them without it would be nice). Just my $0.02

Greebo · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:09 pm Post subject:

John Doe · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:34 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, well Im not going to be as well spoken as many of the people that have posted, but here goes.

NTF is not going to go away, it adds a whole new dimension to the game. To defeat MG's takes some skill and some serious team work. Perhaps if some of you put more effort into promoting team work and less into the bitching and moaning then you would enjoy yourself more.

_________________

Greebo · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:43 pm Post subject:

I'm all for teamwork.

But there's necessary teamwork and there's unnecessary sacrificing of players.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"

CyC0Dad · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:46 pm Post subject:

LOL, very opinionated aren't we. Like I said Love it or Hate it. Viva La Difference.

I play a number of online games and everytime something new is added I read about how it ruins the game etc. People are quick to jump on the "It's too powerfull" band wagon. I have a real problem with the fact that so many people are resistant to change. "Oh No I might have to play a little Differently !!"

I'm not trying to convince you guys this mod is good for you, just want you to understand that some people enjoy a twist every now and then.

Greebo is touting that the neo mod is the anti-TFC and Frag wants us to feel sorry for him because he has to respawn on Offense a few times now. Cheer up, you guys have a lot more influence around here then those of us who seem to enjoy the neotf mod. I'm sure things will be back to normal soon with you guys owning all the newbs in the same way as you always have , over and over and over and over and over again. My my sounds like such fun.

CyC0Dad · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:53 pm Post subject:

Actually JD, very well said. Terse and to the point. On another forum about a different game with a similar perceived problem one of the gamers stated "Quit your Bitchin and start thinking". Very similar advice to what you gave. I might add that that perceived problem was short lived once people leaerned a dozen different ways to deal with it.

For me NeoTF makes things harder, more intense and very different !! I love it !!!

I'm sorry but you guys remind me of my Grandma bitchin about TV dinners and MicroWave ovens. Seriously

Greebo · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:49 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't mind neo-tf, if it kept the balance of play that makes TFC the great mod it is. But it doesn't - and until it does, I'm against it.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"