[CyC0Dad]

That is your privilege Frag. I can't really see it from your side either because I almost never play spy but I have to admit the spy is the hardest hit by this Mod.

Heck I still play medic and pyro a bunch even though they got nothing new. I'd have to say that your argument that the MGs should't be able to detect spies is the closest to a valid argument that I've heard yet. If they removed that from the MGs abilities would you think they were fair then ?

My only real point here is I find them fun to use and destroy and I don't think they are as powerfull as people are making them out to be.

[SpeCies]

CycoDad, I assumed the Teslas ability was to detect and kill Spies? Are you saying this is a Bug?

[cstone]

Theres a thread at PF about this.

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetfortress/topic.asp?fid=1901&tid=460392

Apparantly the guys who were working on it wont be updating or fixing the stuff any time soon

[CyC0Dad]

I'm not sure wether it is a bug or not. All MGs, not just Teslas, detect spies currently. I'm happy with it either way. I was just asking Frag if that was his only problem with the MGs.

My guess is it was an oversite like the fact that they stay up when SGs and Dispensers go away. On the other hand maybe they didn't like spies and thought they were too powerfull like I do. Maybe they needed something to counter the airstrike command. I don't know. But they're fun

[ROOFCUTTER]

But for you C++ wanna be's get started were waiting!
It does seem that a adjustment could be comissioned.
How much do you think it would cost? We could have a bake sale. :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: ROOFCUTTER on 2001-12-04 17:16 ]

[FragFailure]

My only point is this. What is the point of being a spy on an NTF (offensivly) if your specific role is to disguise as the other team and that is taken away? There really isn't a point of ever playing a spy on an NTF server. None what so ever.

Everyone bitches about certain classes that totally benefit from this mod which are sniper and engy. Guess which two are also the safest to play? Guess which two are scored the highest in the stats BEFORE this? The safest classes to play risk wise just got it made easier 10 fold. I've played a lot of engy since then on the mod and it has become 10 fold easier to be one.

As an engy on defense you can
-buildspecial = instadeath
-build sg = nearly instadeath
-build dispenser = get close and instadeath
-throw an emp or four = no explanation necessary
-shotgun = 3 to 4 shots

As a spy on offense you can
-Pray that an idiot on your team hasn't already used your once per minute airstrike
-Pray that you hit all three (count them) grenades to blow a mg up. One emp doesn't blow up a mg either.

Talk about the "spy" being too powerful, what about how powerful an engy is? Explain the 77-2, 36-0, 24-0 I did as a sniper on the mod in one night on 3. I don't think I've suddenly become the god of sniping here. I don't even need to think about ANY spy touching me while on D for three. Therefore I don't even get worried at all about getting caught napping. A soldier bombing long range? Get real. You can jump and avoid those so easy and he'll get bug zapped by Ghidrah if he gets even within a respectable range.

You talk about spy being unbalanced. It really isn't. Any clan scrimmage or skilled player will detect a spy and make him useless. The mod doesn't give you any incenetive to get in the trenches where the real fighting should be. The dirty workers (HW, Soldier, Medic, Spy) get slaughtered by some engy who has 5 ways (4 of those with one shot) to kill someone. You have the mod who beneifts the players who don't do the dirty work. Only 2 classes benefit from this mod and my scores will prove it if I play exclusively on a mod server all week as an engy or sniper.

Lastly the creator of the mod admits fully that this mod was unfairly balanced towards defense. Read cstone's link on it.

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[FragFailure]

I will adapt no matter what happens. I'm explaining the facts on it as I see it.

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[John Doe]

Ok, so how did this manage to get into my tips section?

Perhaps tips on taking out the other teams MGs would be a good topic here, but the rest of it belongs elsewhere.

JD

[Demented Avenger]

Sorry Frag, I gotta side with the Cycofamily on this one. As a spy, you no longer enjoy roaming the maps with impunity. The neo mod saw to this. You can and will find a way to deal with this mod I am sure. You are a stellar player at many classes but because of this mod, you may need to learn a heavier class that can deal with the MG's. Let the voting booth on theville main page speak for the masses. Last time I looked, 42%+ want no changes to the mod. I do feel you inadvertenly had something to do with this because of your mad spy skillz. People just wanted a more level playing field.

On a personal note, Everyone knows I play engie alot. Used to play it on D and O. Now I play Soldier, Demo or HW on O because of the MG's. I think Demo has an advantage over the other classes because of the pipebombs and mirvs. I suggest as an offensive spy, you could help out alot more by keeping the nmy away from the heavier classes while letting them deal with the MG's. I know the temptation to slip behind the nmy lines and creating havoc must be a hard to deal with. I know you can overcome this adversity. You are too good.

Just my $0.02

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[CyC0Dad]

True, Sorry JD, it started with discussion of taking them out but as always happens got a bit off target. End Of Thread.

[FingerDemon]

Well, I have a "taking out an MG" tip to provide, JD.

The rocket and grenade throwing ones throw those munitions just as far as they need to at you, then they blow up. If you can charge right up next to an mg and let that rocket or grenade detonate on you, the MG is Gonzo!
So are you, but it does take out the MG.

Of course it's so quick to build one that by the time you get back to that spot there may be another, but then that's where the teamwork thing comes in.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who likes some variety in the game. Nothing is more fun to me than accomplishing something in game amidst complete chaos Neo adds to that IMHO. Hehe, the chaos part at least.

FingerDemon

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The irrational man expects the world to adapt TO him.
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[ This Message was edited by: FingerDemon on 2001-12-04 19:41 ]

[Maian]

Cycodad, yes this is new, but for you. I have been playing with it for quite a while, and it just isnt as exciting as it once was. I realize it promotes teamplay, but that doesnt mean that the team cares. You know what Im talking about, there are thos guys who play for frags, and dont care about the team. Have you ever played a game of warpath with NTF???? It is impossible to cap. Maybe it wouldnt be if there were more regulars on, who knew how to work together, but there arent, there are a lot of jerk newbs, who purposely kill your mgs. Oh, and Cycodad, yes, without ntf, you will have peopl asking how to build sg's, but I havent had someone ask me that in a looooong time. but everyone does ask how to build mgs, cause they are new to the ville, and therefore are a handicap to the team. Then it becomes impossible to defend your base cause no one will help you upgrade. And even if they do ask how to build an sg, just tell them to press shift, and its self explaniotry from there. But for an mg, you need to tell them to type buildspecal in console, and then get someone to upgrade. Then they ask how do you use console, and sometimes they dont have a console and you have to explain why. Then they ask how a person upgrades. ETC, ETC, ETC... it goes on and on. But either way, with NTF, it makes capping point 5 or point 1 too hard, or too easy (which is bad when your team is too easy). If only the multiguns didnt exist, I think this would solve everyones problem with ntf. Dont get me wrong, I like NTF, except for the damn mgs.

Edited to add:

Well put Frag. These spy detecting mgs make the spy obsolete. The spy's sole purpose is taken away from it. Oh, and I just hate the teslas all together. They are an EMP that aims itself. I guess that my only problem is their ability to detect spies (and the teslas ablity to kill in one shot, usually).

And for my tip: Medics do have a new ability, to make dispensers give health. I realize this is also an engies ability, but it wouldnt happen without the medic. Anyway, for my tip: If one medidispenser is good, two are better, and so on and so on. Yes you heard me. I know that they give health relatively slowly (5 points at a time), but if engies work together, this can be sped up, two fold, three fold, and so on. It all depends on how many dispensers there are. One day, I saw an engineer build a dispenser, and a medic upgraded it. Now I tried a little experiment: I built my dispenser a few feet from his, and had a medic touch it also. Next, I stood inbetween the, and what do ya know, each one was healing me, but since there were two, it was going twice as fast. Now Im positive that it would work with more. Just place a buch of dispensers around a certain point that their healing beam can all reach, and then have medics touch them all. Then if you need health, stand between the, and they will heal you as many times as fast, as there are dispensers. Its great!!!! Try it sometime.

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[ This Message was edited by: Maian on 2001-12-04 20:09 ]