[SpeCies]

Hey All, while playing on your server tonight as a Spy I was informed by Greebo that
Scripts were not allowed. Now the <Script in Question> is a basic Spy Fiend, Auto-Ejecting
a Discarded pack. As you are, I assume you are anyway aware of the fact that I am a Quadriplegic <Medical Diagnosis> I have more use of my arms and motor functions than most
with my level of spinal cord injury. I play my games using my mouse and keyboard like most you except for the fact that my hands are balled up into a fists. I have a glove that I stretch two of my fingers through <2nd and 4th> that rest on my 2 button mouse which is configured (MBTTN 1 Attack,MBTTN 2 Forward) and the Keyboard configured for my action keys.
I type with just the knuckles of my thumbs and cannot hit multiple keys at once. I do have like most that play there at any of TV's TF Servers, CFG's that assist my game play and functions. Example, Rocket Jumping,Delayed Grenades with Timer Sounds, Det Packs,Blowing up Pipe Bombs, they all use basic scripts that could not be executed without. My point is this, I respect the wishes of any Administrator there at The Ville but I don't consider this a CHEAT of any kind. I am not trying to go over Greebo's head here either, I just can't see the opinion of one person putting me on the spot when I know or a fact scripts are in general use here via every player in one form or fashion every game. I also want to say that I find The Ville and most of it's regulars to be very skilled players that actually make TFC fun and something to look forward to each day.. Thank You 8-] Let me know how you all there feel about this issue and I will kindly discontinue it's use. Just remember that not all
Scripts,Config's are an advantage but a neccesity to some to fuction...

[OmegaSiN]

all i can say 2 that is....

DON'T GIVE UP ON UR SCRIPTS!!!!! ITS NOT WORTH IT!!!! tfc is actually about fun, and greebo, they r not damn cheats.......

i hope 2 c on on the ville some time species.
by the way, how old r u??

[Bada Bing]

As far I am concerened all scripts are cheats. But you need these to be able to play and I understand that.
My brother has had Cerebral Palsy since birth and can only communicate with others via his elbow and cheek using a special PC.
The question is how do the admins police this. Anyone could say they have a handicap that requires they use scripts even if they are not really handicaped.
It becomes a real catch 22. Any one using scripts has a big jump one those that do not.
But Hey it's just a game to fun with.
Of coarse that's Just My Opinion and I could be wrong.

[KillerRoofcutter]

I agree with you OmegaSiN you are right they are not cheats.

_________________

PICKACHU GOT OWNED!

[ROOFCUTTER]

It's the pack ejection part that is the cheat. It makes you look like you have really died and people who look for this can be fooled unfairly. Greebo has rightly and fairly for us all pointed this out to you and you have agreed not to use it.
It is also an unnesseary cheat because in the control menu of half-life/ TFC are two key binds for feinting. They are legal and usable. Bind any key you want or can use.
If this is not possible for some reason then I'm sure someone out there knows how to delete the pack ejection part of your script.





_________________
Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering.

[Greebo]

Hrm.....I can see I'm going to have to tread carefully here.
In general, I consider scripted actions to be cheats. For example, scripting rocket jumps.
I know other games allow scripts, for example in counterstrike, I don't consider bind weapon buying scripts as cheats.
It's the actions scripted I don't like.
In the specific case of Species...The bound spy feign/throw pack is unnecessary.
However for actions such as rocket, pipe, conc jumping etc. you may need them to be able to do that (I don't know) - so if that is the case I'd make an exception.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"

[SpeCies]

Hey All, I appreciate the feedback from you all on this.. Thank You! I respect the calls
of every Admin/Player here, so please Greebo don't feel like I was trying to give you a hardtime over your call. If it was not for the close monitoring of these servers here at "The Ville" it would be just another Llama filled pub full of Lamerhoids. I will alter the Dicarding part in my cfg because of the way the majority of you all feel about this. I do not want to make anyone feel unconfortable nor change anything that this organization worked so hard to maintain.

[Goldom]

Whats wrong with a script that feigns and ejects pack? That's no different than hitting 'feign key' then 'eject pack' key is it?

[Greebo]

You can't eject pack when feigned
Plus that would require 2 buttons - this requires one. It gives a significant advantage to the player involved

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"

[Goldom]

I dunno, it seems like only having 2 useable fingers is a significant disadvantage warrenting some normally "unfair" scripts.

Quite frankly I'm surprised, cause SpeCies could beat me pathetically at TFC any day and I have no disabilities. That's really cool that you can rise over problems like that, I wish I had half as much will power as you.

[FingerDemon]

It sounds like I disagree with some of you, but then I'm not 100% sure. The thing is, I know there are scripts that allow you to do things you can't do otherwise, no matter how good a player you are. Super quick SG building, super infecting medics, etc., etc. Those, I consider cheats. But if Species, or anyone else for that matter, simply binds the eject pack part of the script first and then the feign, I wouldn't have a problem with it. As long as someone could do the same thing by hitting different keys. If that's not the case, then fine I can see adjusting the script to remove the eject pack part. But Greebo, you also mentioned you consider rocket jumping scripts a cheat, too. I don't get that. I always use them. I can do it without them too. I am just an inconsistent player, so I like my jumps to be the same every time like a script makes them. I don't consider this a cheat. In fact when the way my script was written caused some Punkbuster errors, I went out of my way trolling other forums looking for script advice until I fixed it. I wanted to comply with the server rules completely.

So, my own view is, if it couldn't be done by even the best of players without a script, it's not right. Otherwise, I don't think they're so bad. Particularly if it does not involve killing another player, like rocket jumping or feigning.

FingerDemon

[Robert E. Lee]

We could talk about what's a cheat script and what isn't a cheat script for days. Everyone will have there own opinion about them. I for one have never used them.
I don't see Species' script being a cheat. He uses it for other reasons. I don't have a problem with you using it.

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[Greebo]

Server Rules state "Anyone found running hacked mods, proxy bots, or any kind of 'helper' paks, scripts," etc etc...

Yes I consider rocket jumping scripts to be a cheat.
You can't say that doing that to consistently get good rocket jumps isn't cheating, surely? Otherwise where does human error come in? It doesn't.
Good players make mistakes - scripts don't.
Would you consider (specifically on mulch_trench) someone binding so that they could double conc across to the enemy battlements to be a cheat? I certainly would. Where's the learned ability in that?

I've already said in Species' case exceptions can and should be made if necessary.
The feign one is a minor script cos any experienced player knows that when you die, your backpack appears on your corpse, it doesn't fly out from you.
But nevertheless doing it without a script is harder.

_________________
Most evil admin around.
Offical Ville songwriter.
"Captain Smart Ass"

[cstone]

I've never used a script to conc/rocket jump, but there is absolutley no way that a script could possibly give you better precision than a player preformed action.

Scripts dont acount for lag, they dont let you go for longer distances at expense to height (or vice versa). And if you need a script to accomplish such conc/rocket jumps, you probably don't have the ability to be much of a threat with them. Species's situation here is obviously different due to his limited finger movement.

As for the spy feign debate... the bind could be as simple as
bind x discard;feign (or whatever the commands are)
Again, I don't use such a script because there really is not much of a benefit here. First, you really shouldn't be feining in front of people in the first place. And second, feigning rarely servers a useful purpose. A spy should be always moving, aiming to take out SGs with grenades or stabing the enemy defense in the back.

But I guess it all comes down to what the server admins consider a script. But then what scripts are considered cheats? And then, is it really fair to lump scripting (an in-game function of HL) in with wall-hacks, auto-aim, and the spec-cheat? I don't think it is.

cstone

[KillerRoofcutter]

Rocket Jumping Cheats? They are part of the game not a cheat. And doblou conc-jumping is not a cheat you just throw one down and prime another one and throw that and you fly.

_________________

PICKACHU GOT OWNED!