[kamikaze]

kopikat, what i don't think you're catching is that we don't think people should drive while high either and we're supporters of legalizing marijuana. i keep seeing you arguing the point like we disagree with you when we don't.

mariujana should be like alcohol, legal as long as you're not endangering other people while you do it.
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i told you i was hardcore.

[crackhead_fred]

Mike look what u started!

[KopiKat]

What your not catching on my end kami is that I know what you are arguing, that people shouldn't drive and smoke pot. And I agree, we both do. But my real arguement is that you cant hope that there are going to be that many responsible people who dont smoke pot and drive (if it's made legal), because there isn't enough responsible people who dont drink and drive. THe problem with marijuana and driving will be as bad as the problem with drinking and driving, and that alone causes tens of thousands, if not more, casualties per year. I'm simply arguing against it because i dont believe people can be responsible enough to not smoke and drive, because people have already shown me and the rest of the world that they cant be responsible enough to not drink and drive. Making something legal and abundant, that affects your ability to drive, is generally a bad idea.

We do not need more traffic fatalaties, i'm sure we can all agree on that, so why add something that will cause more traffic fatalaties into the economy?

-KK
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[Lhiannan_Shee]

Come on, Kopikat.... do you honestly believe that marijuana should stay illegal just because some people *might* toke and drive???

People these days can get pot anyway.... very easily. The people who want to toke and drive already do!

By legalizing, they should be able to test for marijuana usage on impaired drivers, which is something they do not do now (altho I believe they have started to in Canada). You get a breathilyzer when pulled over, not something that tests for marijuana. So, already, lots of people go around driving all high.... and even if they do get pulled over, unless their car reeks of marijauna or there is reason for a legal search and they find marijuana... those drivers are getting away.

By legalizing, it gives the government more control.

TONS of people already smoke marijuana. I'm sure lots drive. I highly doubt that if pot were legalized, TONS more people would start driving stoned.... it just doesnt add up. Pretty much ANYONE who wants to toke now is able to find marijuana. Legalization would not change a thing in aspect to the drinking/toking and driving thing. I have also posted research indicating that stoned drivers are at no greater risk than sober ones in regard to getting into accidents.

I dont by your excuse as a reason for marijuana being illegal. You're too intellegent to think like that
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[KopiKat]

Are you arguing that because people can already get pot easily, that it should be legal? Do you realize what implications that would have? How could we ever justify anything ever again? Lets say a large amount of murders start happening. Should we then legalize murder because everybody is already doing it? Should we just allow people to run red lights legally because everyone already does it? If we start down the path that you are implying, then all hell is gonna break loose.

You believe that only a *few* people are gonna use it and drive, and therefore it is safe to legallize it. I simply disagree. It is abundantly obvious that enough people can't controll their actions with alcohol, so why should marijuana be any different? It has very similar short term effects on the human body to that of alcohol. Any more people who are a hazard on the roadway is more than enough reason for me to keep it illegal.

Why add another substance with a high potential to be in the hands of those who can't use it responsibly to the market? We aren't violating anyone's rights by not allowing them to have it, so why intentionally introduce something that is a hazard to human health into the public market, with no justification but personal enjoyment?

I have also posted my research showing that it is a noticable hazard to drive under the influence of marijuana. Obviously our statistics dissagree.

And if government controll is a justification for introducing marijuana into the public market, then the legislation on legal marijuana will never pass in the United States under that frame of mind.

It is obvious that we arent going to agree, and it is also obvious that we both provide a valid point of view. But we will never be able to convince eachother that either one is right, and probably wont be able to convince anyone else either.

So, just for clarity, let me tell you exactly where i stand on this issue, and why:

Complete legalization of marijuana: I disagree, because I don't believe that it is possible for enough people to be responsible users, due to previous research with other mind altering chemicals.

Legalization of marijuana for medical purposes: I agree, it is a valid medicinal product, and therefore should be used as such.

I simply don't trust the average person enough to be responsible with marijuana, because enough of the average population hasn't shown me that they can be responsible with other mind altering drugs.

All we can do is agree to disagree.

-KK
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[Mike]

[Speaker's Xeno]

wow i stayed out of a thread and it reached this length. i wasnt going to post in here but after seeing it on the front page so many times i figured i would.....
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[img]http://users.tvr-guild.org/speaker/speakersays.php[/img]

[kamikaze]

using your logic, kopikat, alcohol should be illegal because people aren't responsible enough to use it without killing other people. we all know what happened when they made alcohol illegal, right? a black market for alcohol that created more violence and death than when alcohol was legal. by elminating the black market for something, the government is able to test and regulate the substance. more importantly, they government is able to come up with ways of testing for said substances while driving.

now, i know that you don't think that people don't smoke and drive simply because weed is illegal. so what do you think making weed legal will change? will people immediately run out, smoke and start driving? i know alot of people who say they still wouldn't try pot if it was made legal, so where would the increase in stoned drivers come from?

what it comes down to is this. the type of person who is so irresponsible as to smoke and drive already have access to pot and smoke and drive. it being legal will change nothing.
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i told you i was hardcore.

[KopiKat]

Alright so here's where we have come in this argument: nowhere.

Here is where we are going: nowhere.

I believe legal marijuana is a bad thing, you dissagree.

Fine, i can deal with that.

Most of the people in the united states agree with me, that is why they voted down full legalization.

Will that change? Doubt it, but it's possible.

Go have fun toking up and putting poison in your body, it is your decision to do so and I am not going to argue with it or restrain you. If you die as a result, it is your fault.

Cheers,

-KK
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[kamikaze]

awww, i was really looking forward to a rebuttal from my last post.
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i told you i was hardcore.

[Lhiannan_Shee]

kamikaze- I think we think quite simularily about this issue.
Sounds to me like KK has given up. I can't really blame him for it though.


KopiKat- I agree with you in the aspect that we should probably just agree to disagree on this issue. I know I have already made some really long posts which pretty clearly state how i feel. The marijuana issue is one that I am kind of passionate about, and I don't back down. The drug was unfairly deemed illegal. Even now, not enough research has been done, and very little of that research is even conclusive. It kind of makes me sad to see that you have so been influenced by the propaganda.... but then again, a lot of America has been. To see you actually compare marijuana users to people who commit murders or run red lights is just.... disheartening to say the least. You also made a comment about legalizing it for purely "personal enjoyment" or something along that lines.... lots of things are produced these days solely for personal enjoyment. Lots of them are also borderline dangerous to people. Marijuana is not so special that it should be illegal. It also has more benefits than simply enjoyment. Since you have stated you agree w/ it for medical purposes, I wont go through that again.

What I will do, is go have a bong hit I had stopped smoking for a couple weeks to save money, but hubby and myself treated ourselves to some very kynd buds last night.... partially to celebrate the fact that I got him a new computer for his birthday, and I was even able to figure out how to network them together all by myself! I'm quite proud of that last fact, which is probably why I just threw it in here for no apparent reason.
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[Kahlan Amnell]

[Stevo]

[KopiKat]

*shrug* i haven't given up.

I've come to the realization that there isn't anything else that i could say that would make a difference. What does arguing with somebody who won't let themselves consider the other side accomplish? It does nothing.

The only thing you have proved is that you are just as capable of bias as the rest of us.

So, once again, I will tell you where I stand, and then my participation in the discussion here is over.

I am for the use of medical marijuana. I am against the legalization of marijuana. If you want to use marijuana, even if it is illegal, then so be it. You will ruin your life, and you will possibly ruin the lives of others, but that is your own decision. I won't stop you, you are free to act as you choose, but just remember, there ARE consequences to your actions.

Cheers,

-KK
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[Kahlan Amnell]

This post seems to be everyone arguing their own side, without actually discussing it. Some have tried, but others are very blunt in their stance, and unwavering.

Some claim that Americans are unmovable in their "false" opinions, but they can't open their minds to consider where others are coming from. Just because you and/or your friends haven't been affected negatively, or you blame other drugs for why they are irresponsible, it seems... funny to me, yet sad.

Hopefully, though doubtfully, people can open their minds a little and actually have a discussion about important topics without he said she said arguing tactics, just attack the point in the thread, not the people arguing.

Both sides will have pros and cons, realize this, try to figure which side is more important for the point.
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