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Violent Pacifist
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 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddyjack wrote: | | Violent Pacifist wrote: | | Paddyjack wrote: | OK VP.... so what I understood after watching that movie, is that now there is a new matrix, and people are still enslaved to the machine to give energy (except those in Zion), and so we are at square 1 of the ending of the first movie, and I lost 6 hours of my time that did not bring anything to any conclusion. That is what pissed me off.
In brief, nothing has changed.
BTW, I also found that part with the trainman a waste of time. |
What Kazebari said. It's obvious that some humans might want to simply stayed plugged into the 20th century world rather than go to Zion, so in the new matrix, they are given a choice. Everything has changed. I don't see how you can say that the ending wasn't a conclusion. The matrix is safe, the war ends and peace is made, the machines are willing to let the humans ib the matrix go. Would you rather they skipped 5 years into the future to show....err....hmm........the peace that has already been shown between the humans and machines? Unless the machines turned Neo into a cyborg and launched another assault at Zion, this ending would be even cheesier, boring, and over-done than the current one. Instead of cursing the movie, why don't you shed some glorious light into what they could have done better or different? If you come close to saying anything that isn't original, your arguement is automatically rendered null and void, because obviously the original movie can't copy anything. Until you give me a better ending/movie altogether, then I am going to assume you are a little.....dim....I can spew forth anything I want to about anything I see, but I need to back it up before I do.
The trainman was a very important part. It explained why Neo could destroy the sentinels at the end of the 2nd movie and why he can destroy machines altogether in the real world. Without explaining that, the whole "Neo seeing machines and destroying them with thoughts even though he's blind" would make no sense whatsoever. |
So, basically, what you are telling me, is that having a Matrix with humans enslaved to it, like rats in a laboratory, and all the rest of them living in caves, way below the surface is a good thing.... Come on. Thats complete bullshit. The Matrix was the fight of Humanity to end their slavery, not the fight to save Zion. Why not then propose a peace where humans and machine lives side by side on the surface? I'm sure you saw Animatrix, and how all of this started. I'm even sure the authors could have found a way to clear the clouds, and everybody living on the surface.
On the current state, Humanity lost, and gained nothing, except a little respite back in their caves.
And about the trainman, it was too long, and it is the Oracle which in fact gave the explanation.
| Quote: | | Until you give me a better ending/movie altogether, then I am going to assume you are a little.....dim.... |
BTW, never assume something like that, I know I can stand up to you anytime from that side.... |
That is not what I'm telling you. The humans in the matrix are no longer enslaved to it, and have a choice of remaining in their "normal" 2oth century world if they choose. The humans in Zion can now move BEYOND their caves because of the end of the war. The entire story line, from beginning to end, of the matrix was not to obliterate the machines and move back to the surface where the human race would prosper like wild flowers. It was to have the war come to end with the human race still intact (aka, Zion surviving). You are suggesting they write an ending for their movie that is seperate from the main storyline they intended. Again, I tell you that the Wachowski brothers love to leave things out in the open. The more you have to think, assume, and be creative, the happier they are. You yourself have already assumed that the human race manages to return the sun, move to the surface, and live in harmony (at least for awhile) with the machines. Would you feel that much better if the brothers decided to write that, film the humans making love with AI amongst all the flowers now growing in the restored sunlight, and put it in the movie and shoved what would be 100%, no doubt whatsoever, the future for humans and machines? I would then be sitting there thinking someone sabotaged the real movie and showed a crappier version in it's place.
Darkath, the trainman part was drawn out a bit, but it was very important. In Reloaded, Neo saves the lives of himself, Trinity, Morpheus, and Link by destroying the sentinels. He says he can sense them and destroys them with only thought. Immediatly you should be going "Wow....wtf?". The movie ends with Neo in a coma. Once again, questions should be asked.
In Revolutions, the brothers explain how Neo stopped the sentinels and why he is in a coma. He awakens in "the station", where you go if you're trying to take something into or out of the matrix that you shouldn't. The trainman is the one that decides if you are allowed to do so, and he also takes you into/out of the matrix. By destroying the sentinels, Neo was trying to take the one's power outside of the matrix, meaning he had to go through the trainman first (we can assume that he either recieved this power because of his actions when talking to the architect--walking out the left door and/or blowing up the source or part of it--or that he always had this power and just now realized it. Either way, he still has to go through the trainman). Neo's friend and the azn dude tried to get to the trainman before he made his stop at the station so they could try and convince/force him to pick up Neo.
Because Neo is inside of the matrix but not plugged in, the operators can not find him. If you remember, the nurse lady on the ship said that he displayed neurological signs of being plugged in, even though he wasn't.
After being rescued by his friends, Neo saw the oracle and blahblah she explains some things. Afterwards he goes back to reality, and awakens in one of the chairs as if he'd been plugged in the entire time. Again, you assume the nurse lady took a hint and plugged him in so they could call him back to reality.
Half of the movie's storyline (if not more) is based on the fact that Neo can see the source/programs/machines outside of the matrix. Therefore, the trainman thing is a very important part.
BTW Paddy, I am always going to assume that--or at least that you are dim on the subject--if you don't give me any information to believe otherwise. You and just about everyone else that cursed Revolutions gave me no reason as to why you did that I couldn't counter two fold. I have given you plenty of reasons as to why revolutions was good (not to mention, better than the previous movies), and you havn't given me a reason as to why you disliked it. Things might have seemed drawn out in some places, but I can guarantee you there was always a reason for it. Right now, I'm telling everyone that disliked the matrix and has replied to this post to give me some good, beefy reasons as to why you disliked it. Because until you do everything you say sounds idiotic to me, and I'm going to assume you are either insane or being sarcastic, because you have provided me with no other evidence to contradict that assumption.
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Last edited by Violent Pacifist on Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Paddyjack
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Violent Pacifist wrote: |
That is not what I'm telling you. The humans in the matrix are no longer enslaved to it, and have a choice of remaining in their "normal" 2oth century world if they choose. The humans in Zion can now move BEYOND their caves because of the end of the war. |
Scuse me for being "dim", but where exactly in that movie is that explained??
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Violent Pacifist
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddyjack wrote: | | Violent Pacifist wrote: |
That is not what I'm telling you. The humans in the matrix are no longer enslaved to it, and have a choice of remaining in their "normal" 2oth century world if they choose. The humans in Zion can now move BEYOND their caves because of the end of the war. |
Scuse me for being "dim", but where exactly in that movie is that explained?? |
Err, gee...at the end when the oracle speaks to the architect. He blatently states what is going to happen to the humans.
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Chan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:06 am Post subject: |
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So yeah.. this is gonna take alot of red and blue pills to give everyone that desision...
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Paddyjack
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I meant, where in that movie is that explained that humans can live wherever they want?
For me, the way I saw it when the movie was over, was a new Matrix being created (thus humans still bred for energy), and humans free in nice caves below the surface. Square 1. Why make 2 other movies to come to that conclusion...?
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Chen Kenichi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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The trick is that some humans do not want to be released from the Matrix. They are dependant on that world and would not accept the real one, so they are "bred" for energy. I mean, why waste a great source of energy if they don't want to be freed.
In square 1 the people of Zion were not free to run around their caves. :-/ I'm not sure where you got that. I mean after all, they were in danger of becoming completely extinct. I'm assuming they'll be allowed to expand, since they are at peace.
For you Matrix haters, do you pick up the philosophy and symbols along the movies? It is really a work of genius.
In my opinion, there are certain types of people who enjoy or hate the movie. People who like everything just laid out in front of them and don't want to put any thought into the movie generally don't like it. People who hate sci-fi or philosophy also give bad reviews. I mostly see people just looking for a reason to dislike it. People tend to WAY oversimplify the movie. If you think chick flicks are masterpieces, this isn't for you.
Also, if you still simply hate the Matrix, you have to at least appreciate what they did for cinematics.
All in all, this will become another cult classic, just like Star Wars or LotR.
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Paddyjack
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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I will make something clear, I enjoyed Matrix 3 better than the second one, and I'm not a Matrix hater. I simply disliked the way the ending of the trilogy was done. If you are telling me that now the humans start rebuilding their worlds, alongside the machines, well fine. But I didn't get that impression. I'm sorry to be dumb.
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Violent Pacifist
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddyjack wrote: | | I will make something clear, I enjoyed Matrix 3 better than the second one, and I'm not a Matrix hater. I simply disliked the way the ending of the trilogy was done. If you are telling me that now the humans start rebuilding their worlds, alongside the machines, well fine. But I didn't get that impression. I'm sorry to be dumb. |
They don't tell you that exactly, but that is what needs to be assumed. Humans in Zion could not expand because sentinels were patroling the tunnels. With the end of the war and peace between them, the humans can expand outward. The machines won't attack them as long as the humans do likewise, simply because they don't understand treachery (another line from the architect explains this)
Oracle: You will keep your word then?
Architect: Of course. What do you think I am, human?
There's more to it, but that sort of sums it up.
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Mr.Kason Allen
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I went to see it Friday I liked it muchlyfull  The end makes me wonder though 
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omgshovelyouinthebutt?
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[HALO]MasterChief
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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i personally enjoyed all 3 of the movies.
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MuLiShA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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The Matrix was mostly clostly related to to the Bible, with Neo taking on the role of Jesus.
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Seele_Kriecher
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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if they leave you to come up with our own conclusion why do we have to argue over what happens to the humans... personally, i got the impression that the machines were simply going to stop attacking the humans and that the humans that wanted to be freed from the matrix would be permitted to do so.
the only question i have is wtf happened to neo?? at the end the oracle told the little girl that she thinks theyll see neo again... i just dont understand how theyre gonna see him again if he died... maybe he didnt die but it sure as hell seemed that way.
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omgshovelyouinthebutt?
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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my brothers explination is that when Smith took over Neo the machines unplugged Neo which in turn killed Smith, gg.
That's all he said, so i dunno, have fun.
MSN had a cool timeline of the matrix that explaiend the whole human machine war in detail but its gone now. Something about machines were the human slaves then the machines formed there own nation and humans had a trade block and the humans used some sort of weapon which created the clouds over machine city because the sun was tehre energy, which is why they started hooking up humans for power. Something like that, it was explain in the Animatrix if i remember them saying, up to u guys to find out.
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Seele_Kriecher
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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ok i thought about it... well actually read some stuff about it and came up with a conclusion:
neo is dead. not completely though. when the oracle told the girl that theyd see neo again its like how jesus is going to come back to earth. as far as what happened with agent smith taking over neo... i think omgshovelyouinthebutt is right to an extent. why would every smith like blow up or whatever they did if they just unplugged neo? i think what happened was that they deleted his file. they couldnt delete his file earlier because the "equation" wouldnt be balanced and once it balanced out they were able to delete it.
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