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SpeCies Registered User
Joined: 05 Sep 2001 Location: North Carolina Guild: <TVB> Posts: 1948
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 2:58 pm Post subject: 12yr old sued by the RIAA |
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Talk about going crazy, I cannot believe this crap Click Here |
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The Nanite Server Admin
Joined: 26 Apr 2002 Location: lost Posts: 6606
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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If artists released more than one song on a CD that didn't suck maybe they wouldn't have had a 30% drop in sales. _________________
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Kjeldorian Royal Guard 42 Registered User
Joined: 30 Nov 2001 Location: Dripping Springs, TX Posts: 5563
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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The price of production of CD's has drastically dropped in the past several years, yet the shelf price has stayed the same.
$16 and $20 for a CD is just out right wrong. I can by a DVD movie for that amount of money.
Many people realized they were being ripped off by insanely high CD costs and lost interest in buying CD's. Especially once the MP3 wave became more and more prevelant, accessible, and common knowledge. A CD shouldn't cost any more than $10 in my opinion. Anything over that is a blatent rip off.
It's not enough that I have to pay $40 and $50 per ticket to see a band live, but on top of that, you are going to charge me $20 for your CD?!?!? Screw you, I'll d-load it.
I think artists are getting ripped off by file sharing. But on the same hand, the record companies brought this on with their inflated CD prices. The average artist makes maybe 1 or 2 points per CD sold. That's roughly $1.00 per CD if that. Any true musician will tell you, they do not make their money from CD sales, they make their money from touring.
So. . who is truly ripping off the artists? The record companies, not the file sharing community.
I would rather buy a CD than d-load an MP3. Most MP3 quality is for crap compared to a hard copy of the CD. And the hard copy is your backup. But at $16 to $20 a disc, I'll go ahead and deal with the lesser quality version. _________________ Recipient of POTM award
Creator of Warz/Ville Golf Classic
<TVB> Member/Event Coordinator/Council - Retired
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Azrael Registered User
Joined: 21 Nov 2001 Location: Cuba, you got someting to say about dat mang!?!? Guild: TVB Posts: 1196
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I guess one of the reasons why I listen to the type of music I do (punk for the most part), is that those types of bands realize that the fans are their lifeblood, bread and butter, cash cow, whatever. Most of the bands I listen to actively support filesharing, as they view it as a great form of free advertising. I would never have heard about Flogging Molly, my favorite band, had it not been for a friend of mine telling me to DL one of their songs. Since that time I have bought all of their CD's, and I've been to at least one concert of theirs every year for the last three years. If that is the loss of sales the RIAA is talking about, then I think they should prolly go screw their heads back on so I can kick it in. The other nice thing about the labels I listen to is that they've always been pretty cheaply priced. Fat Wreck Chords titles are usually around 12 bucks normally, and Epitaph is generally around 14 to 16 bucks, and that's not counting the compilation CDs. Those are usually around 8 to 10 dollars, so it's pretty easy for me to keep my collection up.
I'm definitely one of those people who like having an actual cd. I like the liner notes, the artwork, and the fun of just looking for a cd. I have not seen this so called loss in sales the RIAA is complaining of. If anything, I've increased my sales to the bands I love. It's a curse I guess I'll just have to bear. Too bad for them. _________________ Under construction!!! |
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SpeCies Registered User
Joined: 05 Sep 2001 Location: North Carolina Guild: <TVB> Posts: 1948
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I agree KRG 100 % Checkout what this guy said about just that Click Here
Are Record Labels Greedy?
The amount of accusations of greed and ineptness leveled at record companies recently is only half as shocking as the record industry's meekness at developing itself. The public has been led to believe that CDs are highly overpriced by greedy companies who are also stealing from the artist in their thirst for profit. Therefore it is quite okay for everyone to download freely on Napster or some other vehicle to redress this "evil." It is also argued that the industry's slowness to respond to the opportunities of the internet opened the door to the likes of Napster. Unfortunately, some naïve artists have supported and fueled these ideas.
Highly Profitable?
In search of the greedy companies, I assumed their disproportionate profits would show up in the annual reports. They don't. From my own experience I know investors look at record companies unfavorably BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ATTRACTIVE RETURNS ON INVESTMENT. Basically, it's a high-risk, low-return business, which is why companies are shrinking in quantity and staff. Many of my friends who were gainfully employed five years ago, are out of the business altogether. Many household names, A&M, Geffen, Chrysalis, IRS, etc., have been shuttered. Hardly the product of a highly profitable industry.
Are CDs Overpriced?
So where does the public get the idea CDs are overpriced? Don't they realize 19 out of 20 CDs released fail to make their investment back? Somewhere along the line, somebody printed that it cost a dollar or so to press a CD. Therefore, any price above that was profit. It's not. As an example, when I add up the cost associated with signing, recording, manufacturing, releasing, marketing, and running a record company over the past three years, for 80 releases, my average CD cost me $15 to make and the average sale price was $10.00. Only in this, my fourth year has my CD price dropped slightly below the sale price for a profitable year. Traditionally, profits come largely from having a large catalog ticking over, generating income without the expenses attached to a new release. New companies don't have a catalog, so by definition they must rely solely on new records with all the costs. Hence years of loss before any profits are possible.
Artists Are Biting the Hand That Feeds Them
The world of rock & roll has always played on its anti-establishment origins. Rich rock stars are a somewhat "embarrassing" phenomena, so they want to retain their popular roots and revolutionary anti-establishment ethic. In the public, therefore, they are quite willing to bite the hand that feeds them. In the past, we all accepted this part of the game. With the advent of Napster and other downloaded technology, we all - artist, record company and the public itself - have to take a step back and say "What does this all mean?" For the artists, biting the hand that feeds them will soon mean that the hand won't be there to bite anymore. For the public, there will always be music, but the music available will change its content and quantity. Live bands will survive, but those that are largely studio animals depending on record sales will become an endangered species. When sources of income diminish in variety, music variety will also diminish.
Napster is not a danger today-it may even act as a listening booth leading to increased record sales-it is tomorrow that is the problem. As technology (players, broadband) becomes commonplace, three to five years from now, Napster-like sites will spell the death of the record stores and a total rethink, if not disaster, for the record companies. Everyone will be affected, artists, record companies, publishing companies and the public themselves.
Internet "Geniuses"
The accusation that record companies have been slow to respond to the Internet may be a valid one, but there is good reason for this. We can't figure out how to make a business out of it, pay royalties (honor the contracts we already have with the artists) and not lose our shirts. The funny thing is, NEITHER CAN ALL THE INTERNET GENIUSES. They are going bankrupt, left, right and center. Most Internet companies seem more like stock market scams than real businesses. I have a strong suspicion that the Internet revolution will turn out to be like the French Revolution. The revolutionaries will spend much energy and talk about overthrowing the "old regime," only to soon find themselves with their heads in the guillotine.
As Americans we have seen many industries and the jobs they create move off shore. We have so far managed to replace these jobs with new and better jobs, particularly in technology. We have moved from a society based on brawn power to brain power. To survive and prosper we must be able to make money from this brain power. If creativity is easily stolen and doesn't have to be paid for, our brain-based businesses will die and our society will go the way of the Romans. They were technology advanced and lost to the barbarian hordes. Don't think it can't happen again. Napster is only the tip of the iceberg. It's the mentality that sees nothing wrong with the theft of intellectual property that will sink many a Titanic.
Kjeldorian Royal Guard 42 wrote: | The price of production of CD's has drastically dropped in the past several years, yet the shelf price has stayed the same.
$16 and $20 for a CD is just out right wrong. I can by a DVD movie for that amount of money.
Many people realized they were being ripped off by insanely high CD costs and lost interest in buying CD's. Especially once the MP3 wave became more and more prevelant, accessible, and common knowledge. A CD shouldn't cost any more than $10 in my opinion. Anything over that is a blatent rip off.
It's not enough that I have to pay $40 and $50 per ticket to see a band live, but on top of that, you are going to charge me $20 for your CD?!?!? Screw you, I'll d-load it.
I think artists are getting ripped off by file sharing. But on the same hand, the record companies brought this on with their inflated CD prices. The average artist makes maybe 1 or 2 points per CD sold. That's roughly $1.00 per CD if that. Any true musician will tell you, they do not make their money from CD sales, they make their money from touring.
So. . who is truly ripping off the artists? The record companies, not the file sharing community.
I would rather buy a CD than d-load an MP3. Most MP3 quality is for crap compared to a hard copy of the CD. And the hard copy is your backup. But at $16 to $20 a disc, I'll go ahead and deal with the lesser quality version. |
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FragFailure Registered User
Joined: 12 Aug 2001 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4219
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I know I already disucessed my thoughts on what I think about the RIAA. They only a little more than 59 million files sharers left to sue. At anytime of the night, you have more people on Kazaa alone than in the city of Chicago (3,000,000 population.) I already said that the first mistake suing they do will get terrible publiciity. Here we are!
Flogging Molly rules. The lead singer still chugging Guiness during the songs? _________________ Yes, I'm still around
- PWG member 2001
- TVB founder and leader 2001-2004
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My Personal Insanity Registered User
Joined: 03 Mar 2002 Location: Salt Lake City GUILD: US-V Posts: 2627
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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NaniteFog wrote: | If artists released more than one song on a CD that didn't suck maybe they wouldn't have had a 30% drop in sales. |
No kidding. I have rarely purchased CD's 'cause it's not worth $20.00
to me unless I actually want to listen to more than one track.
(Thus my collection of CDs is limited mainly to TMBG)
Eventually the music companies will be forced to re-think their business
model. You can't sue the whole world. _________________ [url=http://www.surfacezero.net/BottleFairy-Sensei-san(J).mp3][/url]
aaa, oshiete sensei-san... |
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Blown Registered User
Joined: 15 Dec 2001 Location: Medford Oregon Posts: 4172
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just download them at work and blame it on my least favorite employee. LOL |
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Stevo Ville Supporter
Joined: 08 Dec 2002 Location: Orange County Guild: TVR Posts: 9514
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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How is downloading music any different than listening to the radio? It looks like they're suing people now just because they can. _________________
The Official TVR Website
Fopp
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ROOFCUTTER Server Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2001 Location: =USV= Posts: 9271
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have 450 cds. I love music, I spent a fortune on equipment. I was one of their best customers. but when cds stayed up in the hi 20's, I to felt like I was being ripped off. Really it does not matter what you pay if you feel you got value for your money. But now all I have is a bitter taste in my mouth. In my opinion that is where their 30 odd % went.
I will not buy another cd as long as the RIAA has anything to do with it.
Its been 2 years and it's going to be at least two more by the looks of it.
I don't download music. It is stealing. But I will buy from the groups via the web. That is where music should be boughtt now anyway.
RIAA _________________ Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering. |
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FragFailure Registered User
Joined: 12 Aug 2001 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4219
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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They settled with the 12 year old's family for the sum of $2,000. Naturally that comes with them changing their tune from fighting it to saying how wrong the downloading is. I think most people will see through it. _________________ Yes, I'm still around
- PWG member 2001
- TVB founder and leader 2001-2004
- The Ville's Vegas Bashes I-V
- T.V.L. (Ville TFC League)
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[njk]Nopeace4u-DBD Registered User
Joined: 15 Aug 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 671
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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ridiculous, i hope they would come after me for d/l a music file, how focusing more on the Highly Illegal stuff that is being sent across p2p networks, go ahead send a notice that im gonna be sued for d/l a music file, ill use as toilet paper next time i gotta u knwo what. Forget em _________________ Death Before Dishonor :: Semper Fi :: 1st Marine Division 3rd Tracks Bravo Co. |
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shockwave Server Admin
Joined: 26 Feb 2003 Location: Drunk in the corner in some Texas bar. Posts: 1970
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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FragFailure wrote: | They settled with the 12 year old's family for the sum of $2,000. Naturally that comes with them changing their tune from fighting it to saying how wrong the downloading is. I think most people will see through it. |
The full article:
Girl, 12, Settles Piracy Suit for $2,000
By TED BRIDIS, AP Technology Writer
WASHINGTON - A 12-year-old girl in New York who was among the first to be sued by the record industry for sharing music over the Internet is off the hook after her mother agreed Tuesday to pay $2,000 to settle the lawsuit, apologizing and admitting that her daughter's actions violated U.S. copyright laws.
The hurried settlement involving Brianna LaHara, an honors student, was the first announced one day after the Recording Industry Association of America (news - web sites) filed 261 such lawsuits across the country. Lawyers for the RIAA said Brianna's mother, Sylvia Torres, contacted them early Tuesday to negotiate.
"We understand now that file-sharing the music was illegal," Torres said in a statement distributed by the recording industry. "You can be sure Brianna won't be doing it anymore."
Brianna added: "I am sorry for what I have done. I love music and don't want to hurt the artists I love."
The case against Brianna was a potential minefield for the music industry from a public relations standpoint. The family lives in a city housing project on New York's Upper West Side, and they said they mistakenly believed they were entitled to download music over the Internet because they had paid $29.99 for software that gives them access to online file-sharing services.
Even in the hours before the settlement was announced, Brianna was emerging as an example of what critics said was overzealous enforcement by the powerful music industry.
The top lawyer for Verizon Communications Inc. charged earlier Tuesday during a Senate hearing that music lawyers had resorted to a "campaign against 12-year-old girls" rather than trying to help consumers turn to legal sources for songs online. Verizon's Internet subsidiary is engaged in a protracted legal fight against the RIAA over copyright subpoenas sent Verizon customers.
Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., also alluded to Brianna's case.
"Are you headed to junior high schools to round up the usual suspects?" Durbin asked RIAA President Cary Sherman during a Senate Judiciary hearing.
Durbin said he appreciated the piracy threat to the recording industry, but added, "I think you have a tough public relations campaign to go after the offenders without appearing heavy-handed in the process."
Sherman responded that most people don't shoplift because they fear they'll be arrested.
"We're trying to let people know they may get caught, therefore they should not engage in this behavior," Sherman said. "Yes, there are going to be some kids caught in this, but you'd be surprised at how many adults are engaged in this activity." _________________
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JtH Registered User
Joined: 12 Jan 2002 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 1854
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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every time i download music off the internet, i usually look into buying the cd. Before i bought relationship of command by at the drive in, i listened to some of their songs and thought if it was a good investment. i ended up buying the cd. same with beloved, thursday, the juliana theory, norma jean, and the used. i listened to all of them before i bought the cd.
now i buy more cds than ever.
now tell me if thats a drop in sales. _________________
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MuLiShA Registered User
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Location: OC or SD Posts: 1050
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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JacktheHomeless wrote: | every time i download music off the internet, i usually look into buying the cd. Before i bought relationship of command by at the drive in, i listened to some of their songs and thought if it was a good investment. i ended up buying the cd. same with beloved, thursday, the juliana theory, norma jean, and the used. i listened to all of them before i bought the cd.
now i buy more cds than ever.
now tell me if thats a drop in sales. |
I don't think any of those bands are associated with the RIAA. _________________ Usually my sig goes here, but who the hell needs one anyways. |
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