[FragFailure]

I've finished both High School and College. IrishMan's post on The Good Earth book got me to thinking. What percentage of relevance of what you learn in school transfers to real life.

Here's my thoughts...discuss yours


English and Grammar - Very relevant. The ability to use more than basic words makes someone look that much smarter. Three to fours years works for me.

Reading - Very relevant. Reading crap you don't want to read for a book report...irrelevant. Reading is important, but not to the extent of reading books that aren't necessary to read. I'd only require it more to students who are having issues with reading.

Math - Relevant up to Geometry. Unless you decide to be a designer, architect, or engineer. Then it's very relevant. Schools I know have Math required up to Geometry. I'd agree with that. Figuring out Algebra and Geometry works on one's logic.

Science - Useless for almost all. Only people who like Neil Peart's (he of the band Rush) lyrics or if you are choosing a career in Science. Most don't. Too many Science requirements. The periodic table and dissecting is a waste of time. One to two years of Science tops. Three to four years of Science is a waste.

History - Very cool to know. Useless when it comes to most aspectes of jobs though. Two years tops.

Geography - At one time relevant. GPS will be the standard and no guys can get lost anymore (and deny being lost to their wife.) This would be optional for me.

Art - Useless unless that is your goal. Forcing it on the populous doesn't help. Most artists I know (real life) are starving and have ego issues. The worst to me is poetry. I don't have time to decode or guess what a poet is saying. I took Poetry in college. I nearly barfed at the seriousness it was taken. Say what you mean and get done with it. I will say that graphic arts are pretty cool though. I'd have this optional and not required.

Foreign Language - I used to say it didn't matter. Now I'd say that Spanish is pretty important. One to two years of Spanish works.

Religion (if applicable) - This one is strictly on a personal level. I'm not touching it. No comment.


What I'd add as importance not optional

Computers - Not just one course of it. I'd require all students to be competant in computers. I'd focus on office products that will be used in the business world.

Shop - A few tech schools do have this. The idea of of building and fixing basic things is of importance. There should be a requirement on fixing basic things on cars as well.

Home Economics - I know it's a one semester class for most. The idea of hammering home to students what to expect in the real world is of most importance. Buying a home and balancing a checkbook are kinda important.

Office and Work enviornement - The idea of having to deal with a superior who is a moron should be enough to let students know that the real world can suck too.

Finance - A Finance I and II on how to budget and invest your earnings. A class on how the stock market works would also apply. Most people have no clue on their money and what to do. Most people take word of mouth as the truth.

Law - I took a Law class in High School and I thought it was one of the best classes I took. The ability to read a loan, a contract, or anything binding you may sign is of importance. An idea of know one's rights is also a good idea.

[Gurrg]

i agree with you on all those things,but i'm going into my freshman year, and my 8th grade year i HAD to take Algebra 1, meaning my feshman year i would HAVE to take algebra 2, and my 8th grade year doesn't count as a credit for high school, and they will not let me, or anyone else, so i have to have 3 major math classes meaning i will have to take senior math (hard $hit), and i'm planning on goin to WyoTech (#1 car school) and all they need is for me to get outta high school, with no hard classes, meaning i'm just goin to waste at least 3 years of my life.

nice post tho Frag, i like it.
_________________


The Ville-Addict----BR Site \/

[Violent Pacifist]

Well, while I am just starting highschool, I think I would make a few changes to your list. I'm not experienced in "life" yet, but some of it is common sense rather than wisdom.

Reading and writing: Reading is one of the most important things in our world. Besides speaking, reading and writing are our forms of communication. Even if you have no trouble whatsoever reading or writing, you should still have a class that has you do both. However, you should be given the choice in what book you want to read, as long as it's within reason. Not practicing reading and writing deteriorates your skill in both, as any skill would. The freak novelist that appears in an english class once or twice (or never) should be writing and reading enough on their own, without having extra time forced upon them.

Shop: I don't find shop as important as you seem to. Wood-working and car fixing is all very nice, but not something I'd dedicate an entire class to, unless the said person wanted to take the class. Throughout most of your school life, you are given projects that either force or allow you to create something. This exercises your building skills - I guess you could call them hand skills, or something - and creativity, which, understandibly, everyone does not have. But it is still useful to at least attempt such things. Creativity seems to me an important factor in obtaining a job that is right for you. There's the human drone, who doesn't have much hope of becoming anything that isn't a follower, all the way to the creative freaks who end up making things like computers, books, art, cars, etc.

Language and History: Spanish isn't the only foreign language spoken. While places such as Texas are slowly turning into hispanic populations, as they all move here without knowing any english, there are many other cultures as well. When North America was first being colonized, Germans made up probably around half or more of the population. In the beginning, Texas was basically a German state, and even today, there are still tons of all German communities. A vast amount of world speaks German, just as other parts speak Spanish. French is also a widely spoken language throughout the world. Latin is a great base for vocabulary, as well as history. I think that the schools would be correct in forcing you to take two classes of language (what it is here). When deciding what to take, the student should keep in mind where he wants to live and what he might want to do for a living.
History is one of the most neglected subjects I've ever seen. For most people, it seems, the requirements to be a history teacher is to be able to give out worksheets, books, and sit behind a desk glaring at the little pointed kids. Last year, though, I had just about the best history teacher in the US. He loved what he did, was the only history teacher that didn't issue books, and gave out no worksheets whatsoever. Instead, he would write subjects on the board that he would enthusiastically lecture us on. Our only grades were that of tests. He would dress up in clothing appropiate to what he was teaching about (union uniforms, confederate uniforms, mexican uniforms, etc.). Every bit of his walls were covered in something historical. He had hundreds worth of historic things just hanging in his room.
A teacher like that really opens your eyes to the world of history. Sure, it can be fairly interesting, as well as good entertainment when you listen about a huge battle, or the idiots that were in government back then, but it's something more as well. History is what allows us to understand the current world around us. It let's understand other people, places, and cultures. It also allows us another great thing...the ability to not make the same mistakes that people back then made, as well as being able to make good decisions according to what did work. The old saying of "history repeats itself", IMHO, can only be applied to those that neglect to recognize it.

Also, I found that algebra - algebra 1, anyway - did not so much apply to logic, as it did being book smart. You did what you were told worked and that was that. You learned and remembered the formulas, knew that x+2=6 meant x was 4, but you were never taught as to why that was so. If you could prove why the algebra formula you just learned worked, than yes, you used logic. But other than that, logic is found in geometry.

Everything else that I didn't just rant on, I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you on.
_________________

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

[Azrael]

VP, I got your back on the history thing. I seem to recall a quote by some famous guy or other who said that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (George Santayana, and no I didn't remember that, I looked it up).

As for the Science, I gotta disagree partly with you Frag. While I feel that it should be an option for people to be forced into taking a science class, I think it's an option well worth taking. The sciences do so much more than fill your mind with book knowledge that would only be useful in the classrom. It also helps to bring out the inquisitive nature in people which has helped us thrive as a species. It is this childlike desire to take things apart and see how they work which has given us so many of our technological advancements in todays world. I mean seriously, what in God's green earth possessed Ben Franklin to tie a key to a kite and fly it in a thunderstorm? The desire to find out exactly what lightning was made of. If people don't want to learn about the world and what makes it tick that's cool and all, but I think their lives are just a bit duller.

As for languages, well, let's just say I think we don't do enough to encourage our kids to learn them (even the one they call their native tongue). So many misunderstandings between people could be resolved if they could just effectively communicate with each other. Learning a foreign language not only guves you an inroad into a conversation with someone from a different country, it also gives you insight into their culture, their social status, sometimes even their mental well-being. I've gotten the chance to work with linguists from England, and I have to say that sa far as raw talent and good work ethic, they totally wipe us out. Maybe it's because they're so much closer to countries that speak languages other than english (probably is too). I know you can't force everyone to speak languages, some just can't wrap their minds around it, but I think we should get our kids into the mindset that being able to speak another tongue besides english is a good thing.

P.S. Being bilingual is very good when looking for a job, so it's not just good in case you're stuck in Mongolia!!
_________________
Under construction!!!

[DarkTemplar316]

math- for some reason in my school the math teachers have all sucked. so i dont really like math because i got lazy and didnt really try as hard as i did in other subjects.

english- i really like english because it has practical uses. you need to know how to speak and write in proper english. and its the easiest subject to bs.

history- i also do very good in history because it can be interesting. this past year our history was "current events" and we happened to have a really good teacher. he knew everything about everything. hell, maybe he was making it up, but he knew his stuff. and the class is easy. and i won a medal in the national current events league test... hehe highest score in the school on all 4 tests.... thats what happens when cnn, msnbc, or fox news is on the tv when i get home and i cant find the remote and i am to lazy to look for it.

spanish- i wish i paid more attention because that would have been very useful, but instead i just goofed off most of the time and was happy with B's.

Science- boring.

gym- ah, gym. playing hockey was fun. and hitting homers in wiffleball

im probably forgetting alot but im tired right now

[Darkath]

Am I the only one who likes science here, wtf?

Like Azrael said, it was science that got us to the point we are today
_________________

^^^ Clicky

[Violent Pacifist]

I enjoy science, but only certain kinds. The word "science", applies to a wide range of subjects, probably the widest of any school subject. I think Frag's saying you should take at least 2 years of general science. If there's something you like, keep going with it.
_________________

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

[5th GHG E.G. Mine]

All I can say is, "To each his own." I'll probabaly elaborate on that another time, but not right now. I'm getting sleepy-sleeps. 'Night 'night.
_________________
http://www.chronixradio.com

[Pornstar]

Hhhmmm where to start. Well I have come along ways in the past two years education wise. I have finished High School and currently have stumbled through 34 credit hours at a Junior College. Of course I have not been to a class in college in probably a year or so. First I would have to disagree about learning different subject matters as pointless and boring. The problem is that you are being shackled and constrained from reaching your full learning capability. Especially if you are in Public Schooling. To me our public school system is to easy(read: nonchallenging) and slow. Todays schools pander to the child that was not born too smart or does not have parents that give a hoot about their kids education. The latter is the number one problem in the US's education system. This results in the above average student, that is not smart enough to be in Honors classes, to be left behind, due to lack of being challenged.

For the grades K-8, you should be doing nothing, but basics. It should be so well hammered into you that you do not need to be taking more basic courses once you go to High School. High School should be the start of when you choose what classes you want to take. Including advance basic classes if you so desire. In K-8 your courses should include, full teaching of English Grammer/Reading & Writing(students should be given some flexibility in choosing reading material), Science (should include basic Chemistry, Physics, Geology, Geography and Biology), History(we as a country are seriouly lacking in this department)(should include US and Local Government, US and World History), Math(basic, Algebra and Geometry), Basic Computer skills(such as how to use one,typing, building a PC and troubleshooting), Physical Education and last Latin. I really feel that extracurricular classes should be done away with. They take to much time and money away from Learning. I speak of classes such as Sports and Music. This comes from somebody who played the violin and various sports.

Once you are in High School you should have a large field of courses to choose from to advance your learning and help you decide what direction you want to go after you graduate. This should include advance basic classes, Foriegn Language, Art, Music, Business(Accounting, Economics and Home Finance), Advanced Physical Education, Advance Computer and Home Economics(cooking and shop class). This should give you a pretty well rounded education and a good idea of what you would want to do afterwards.

Onward to College. With good reason you should have requirements for obtaining a specific degree. What good is an Engineering degree if all the classes you took were Marketing and Sales classes. That being said the only basics you should have to take, should be advanced courses of your choosing. By this point you really do not need more English classes unless your degree requires it or you feel deficient in this area. The same goes for any other basic subject. The courses you take in college should be strongly geared towards your degree and any other classes would be up to you. If this was the case then college would be more fun and you would learn/retain more information. But that is not the case unless you go to a Technical School, DeVry or other schools that allow you to complete your degree in two years.

As far as extracurricular activities go in college, are great, even though I feel sports still takes away from proper eduction. In the past two years I have learned that self teaching is one of the best ways to learn. After reading a biography on Benjamin Franklin( The First American-H.W. Brands) I garnered a thirst to learn. I now have filled four book cases of a small private library of various topics. Anywhere from history, fiction or science. I know I can't be a complete Renaissance Man, but I try to be knowledgable about most subjects. It certainly helps in obtaining a better grasp of Grammer and Spelling. It also helps expand my vocabulary and create interesting hobbies. Sorry for the long post, but good topic Frag.

[Pornstar]

[Replica]

I will say that graphic arts are pretty cool though.

aslo if you are good enough tis a greaty hobby

my problem was i dind't know what i wanted to do untill i was halfway through senior year in high school, so taking 3 AP courses in stupid crap i dind't need instead of maybe the AP art history course which was unavailable due to lack of interest. only good part was i got to hang with friends and i really dont'e ven remember doing homework...
_________________

[thewz]

In my third year of high school, one of the guys on the football team asked my math teacher how something like algebra or trigonometry would be usefull in real life now that we have calculators that can do all that for us. He then asked the football player how doing 50 push ups at every practice would help his game. At what point during a football game do all the players drop to the ground and do push ups? Never. But it builds your physical strength. Going through those "useless" classes builds your intellectual strength.

Although I do agree with frag that more "real world" classes like finance, home ec etc. should be placed into the curriculum. (spelling?)
_________________
-Thewz
Thewz is here? Oh shit...

[MuLiShA]

omg thewz said something smart....

On another note, remedial classes are the way to go just like me.
_________________
Usually my sig goes here, but who the hell needs one anyways.

[`RaphX]

[sharkbyte]

My 9th grade Geometry class had a lot of real-world application. It helped me make money, playing pool, all through high school. Never had a real job in high school.
_________________