[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

For my 300th post, I'm going to discuss a class that is near and dear to old TYO's heart: the Engineer.

First, some definitions. My terms may be different from yours:

supply pack = health pack, the regenerating packs found at various spots

ammo pack = pack left behind by a dead player, contains only ammo

One thing that drives every Engineer crazy is when other players hog the supply packs as you are trying to upgrade your sentry. This has been rehashed time and time again, but to summarize for non-Engies: Don't take a supply pack if you don't need it, and if you do take one, discard your extra ammo (the X key by default) so that the Engies can have metal to upgrade their sentries.

But the point of this post isn't to scold people for taking supply packs from Engies. In fact, it's the exact opposite. A lot of Engineers, even good ones, will run to a supply pack for metal, while avoiding a potentially better source: the ammo packs left by dead players.

Engies, if you only need metal, grab the ammo packs FIRST. Your teammates seldom have any use for them, as most of us don't live long enough to run out of ammo. The amount of metal in these packs will vary, but some bodies will leave you a full load of metal in just ONE pack. Leave the health packs for people who are injured, even if you are injured yourself. Even at full health, you are still an easy frag.

To summarize: Engies, if your teammates are running around near death looking for a supply pack, and you grab a supply pack while ignoring a field of ammo packs, YOU are the jerk. Not them. Thanks for your time.

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[Ktulu]

Well put Thom, I love getting 200 metal from one pack especially if it's the enemy I just killed Only problem sometimes is those packs are on the front line and like you said engies are easy frags with scouts being the only class weaker than an engie.
Also I'm sure this has been said a million times but..... when playing Avanti and your team is protecting cp3 PLEASE do not take that pack just past the church, you have just re-spawned and you have full everything, you get nothing for taking that pack except for weaker sg's on your team. Also camping on a pack and tossing the extra ammo to an engie does not cut it, it takes at least 15 of those tossed packs to build a level 3 sg.
Another note to engies.... Please beat the shit out of your teamates with your spanner if they are weak, if you hear someone say "medic" and there not sick.... heal them with some tough love.

[Chen Kenichi]

Ammo packs are great but like ktulu said, most enemies don't die in an easy place to grab them. And I know from exp that nothing is more annoying than newly spawned people running over the pack by 3. But I too sometimes do that when I'm not paying attention. I think I make up for it though because I always heed to an mg upgrade (I'm usually playing spy). Also beat EVERYONE with the spanner. It restores armor and is a great spy detector.

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[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

Yeah, it can be pretty rough to grab those ammo packs when you are standing behind your sentry 24/7. That isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just cowardly Engies in general. I love the Engies who stand back and wait for a Spy to walk up and toss grenades at their sentry before reacting. That is NOT considered Spy spotting.

We should probably mention that you should load up your Dispenser if you have the chance. Not a lot of guys do this. You just crouch down and hit it with your spanner. The more ammo it has, the more damage it makes when you toast somebody with it.

That is, if you even built a Dispenser in the first place.

Bah, I thought I kicked my Engie habit six weeks ago. I can't shake it. Help!!!

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[[Florida]GO TO HELL]

Excactly!!!!!!!!!
My problem is, when your building your Sgun and there's "Packs" sitting right next to you, other people grab them and your left with nothing Come On People leave them "BEE"
And Thank You for the people who does leave them alone and Yes they also give them to me "lol"

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www.geocities.com/clanflorida/Florida.html
cya,
[Florida]GO TO HELL

[Kjeldorian Royal Guard 42]

Ok fellow engy's;

There are two engy modes to choose from. Attacking and defending.

When defending, it is important to place your sg as close to a respawning pack as possible. It will ensure quick reload and repair. This is very important when defending against an enemy charge.

When attacking, you simply place your sg in the most opportunistic place. An sg in the middle of a fight will have a significant impact no matter how long you keep it there. Grabbing packs from the dead is really only an issue when attacking. In this case, what Thom said is entirely correct.

MG's are beside the point, so I won't even go there.

We must always remember that we are part of a team. Although packs are our lifeline, our team mates need them also. They need them as much if not more than we do. After all, they are the ones opening up the area for us to move in. We shouldn't complain about pack availability while we are taking grenades from spies, demo's, and HWG's.

Then again, that's just an opinion.
Unite the Engy's!

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[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

Woohoo! Intelligent Engie talk! Where's Battle Cow? And Demented Avenger?

KRG, great point about the Attacking versus Defending Engies. Most guys play just for defense, but it's important to control newly captured territory. You can even apply this on defense in Avanti. If you have solid control of CP3, add a sentry down by the death room. Push the enemy as far back as possible. Corner them like the rats they are!!!

I always liked to put my sentries as far forward as possible. They didn't last that long, but they made life that much safer for the sentries and Snipers behind me.

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[CyC0Dad]

I 'll have you know TYO that SuperZero and Myself started the intellegent Engy talk a long time ago. Now how could you forget me ? even if I do a lot of sniper and scout lately I'm always a medic and engy at heart.

I usually build a dispenser by the church pack to remind newly respawned individulas to leave it alone. Injured people coming from 3 have no problem getting the pack if I place my dispenser properly.

There is always a bit of calm in a battle. It is then you dash out and grab the packs of the fallen. Maybe you should add that tip to the Be a better Engy thread. I don't think that was ever mentioned about the ammo packs.

ALWAYS hit a fellow engys SG. And quit Bitching when a HW touches your MG, be gratefull someone has touched it. At minimum it acts as a spy spotter and you can always blow it up and build another when the spy or sniper shows up.

Tesla Tesla Tesla.... Tesla is actually a weak weapon best used in close quarters due to range problems. A fully healthed soldier or HW will survive a direct tesla hit and have time to kill it while it is recharging.

Be sure to aask the appropriate class to touch your Sg based on where you put it. Heck I've even found a place on crossover where the nade launcer works well. But above all be gratefull someone touches your dam MG. I'm so tired of heaqring" Yo Ass I wanted a tesla you moron, stop touching it !!" Be nice and consider the circumstances. In the heat of battle any classw ill do and if it was wrong clkass just det it and build again when appropriate. Now how did I get talking abouy MGs ??

[KillerRoofcutter]

Could not have been as well said guys. And CycoDad what you said about MGs I was kinda doing the oppistit I was kind tell the hw and stuff that I really did not want a Grenade launcher but after I read what you said that will be a lesson that I learned cuz it is better to have something than nothing. I have nothing else to say.

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PICKACHU GOT OWNED!

[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

Sorry for leaving you out, CyCo! I've got you pegged as an all-around player these days. That's where I'm trying to get to, with okay results so far. Just gotta get that conc jump down . . .

If you've never played with or against CyCoDaD when he's an Engie, you'll see a guy who loves to put his sentry in different spots to keep you off guard. Sometimes in the most surprising places. Highly recommended.

We should do a whole thread about putting sentries in clever/hard-to-reach places.

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[thewz]

You said that it is good to move your defense up forward, I beg to differ. If all your defenses are far down, a solly, spy can get past and cap the flag. If you have 3 or more engies, I would not put more than 1 or 2 sgs forward. You should ALWAYS have at least 2 sgs guarding the cap point. What should you do at the cap point?
A) Create a crossfire
B) Place the sgs so that one sg covers anothers blind spot, which in turn covers another sgs blind spot and so on.
C) Always make sure that there is at LEAST 1 engy who is back at the cap point constantly fixing, reloading the sgs.
D) Create lots of dispensers. So the sg still has some blind spots? place some dispensers there. having dispensers is great, because it CREATES and GIVES EVERY type of ammunition, and it gives armor. (with neotf it can give health also)


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-Thewz
Thewz is here? Oh shit...

[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

Damn, this thread even coaxed a serious post out of the_avenger. Great points about placement. Putting a sentry too close to another one is like tatooing the word NEWB to your forehead. One of the neat things about NeoTF is being able to do some of that cross-placement with only one Engie.

To clarify the point about offensive Engies: I'm not advocating having ALL of your Engies play forward. That's usually not a problem, as most will play back all of the time.

How often do you see CP3 on Warpath overdefended, while no one is trying to move their hardware forward to help your advancing troops control CP2/4? If you don't have the time to put up a full SG, you can at least dash in and toss up an MG. If you can get a Tesla down behind the wall across from the CP, it's tough to kill and can toast any NMEs making a mad dash to recapture the CP. And an SG in the tunnel is just brutal.

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[Kjeldorian Royal Guard 42]

Forward motion is the construct of this game. Traffic was designed to move. At some point, someone must move forward.

An engineer on the attack is a very powerful thing. A level one sg can be built in around 5 seconds and it will have enough ammo in it to kill. To not use this as an effective assault tool would be silly.

A "seasoned" engineer can and will dictate the flow of the game.

Attack first. If you do not attack, what do you have to defend?



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[FragFailure]

you could always defend the "dreaded" visit

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[Snaggletooth]

But if the *visitor* is infected as he passes by, what then?

{edit} Forgot to mention, do the engies a favor and throw them a pack, you don't need it anyway....{end edit}
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[ This Message was edited by: Snaggletooth on 2002-01-06 04:28 ]