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sharkbyte
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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Thewz wrote: | I do blame the Americans (well at least the coalition of countries who took part in desert storm) however, for not finishing this back in 91. You told the entire Iraqi population that you would free them from Saddam. They were all awaiting the destruction of Saddam's regime, you marched right up to Bahgdad, and went home.
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As I recall, in 1991 the only authority given was to remove IRAQ from Kuwait. America said that we disagreed, but we complied based on the fact of UN sanctions, and that if those weren't met Saddam would be removed from power.
Well, 12 years later, he had not complied so we sought to have him removed from power. Pretty much everyone was afraid to make that decision so we took it upon ourselves to deal with it.
As far as France not supporting the war...
Perhaps it is me, but as an American I wonder why I should not offer someone from Canada, or France, or anywhere else the right to say what they believe (First Amendment).
If they came into this country and said it, they have that right. So why shouldn't I accept that they have that right to speak from whereever they are. I only take issue when people start placing blame.
Many people have been wrong for many things, and there were lots of issues/actions that led up to this war. Maybe it was George Bush...maybe it was George W., or maybe it was France supporting sanctions in 1991 but failing to enforce the consequences of those actions in 2002/03. Or maybe it was all of these, with many more decisions/actions on top of them...
I don't dislike France because they didn't support the war. There are people here that didn't support the war. I dislike France because it seems that many believe that all of America is to blame for the decisions made by a few.
Think about it...if every regular person in America was against the war we still could not have stopped it. It was our elected officials that made the decision. This is what France, and the rest of the world, needs to understand. For the most part, the final decision was out of our control.
My only 2 cents to be offerred on this subject.
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DJ George
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Shockwave wrote: |
Another 19% is from your friends and family listening to the media.
I wonder where the last 1% is..... |
That is like that 800 number that McD's started, 80% is general complaints, 10% is urgent complaints, and 5% is compliments.
What is the other 5%? People calling to B.S.?
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Whatever
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Joined: 16 Aug 2001
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I think another reason France stayed out is because of the 'fairly' high population of muslims that live there. I have read that between 5-10 million muslims live there. That is a sizable voting bloc, and given France's elections recently, anything could happen.
I read a great article on the economic problems of France, and how that affects the muslims that are there. The majority live in what we would call ghettos here...not to mention the racism they receive.
Here is the article...I think it is quite good:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html
France has been worried about the money they would lose if we did attack Iraq, and they have a legitimate reason to be. All of the Oil for Food UN money went to a French bank (BNP Paribas), which brings in $300 million per week (http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/background/latest/wu030304.html)
France also saved a lot of money on the oil, getting it at depressed prices. That is not to mention the large oil contracts they have lined up for when the sanctions were supposed to end.
And of course, the US will make money on this now. American, British, and other countries that assisted will get contracts. Just the way it is...they went in and kicked Saddam out, and they get the spoils.
I was for the invasion, no matter if WMD was found or not. Just seeing those people found in prisons buried alive made it worthwhile. Hearing the horror stories, and seeing his massive palaces while the people had nothing was pathetic...hearing the stories of rape and pillaging....
Bah...we did the right thing to me.
Just my $0.02 on this.
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cobra
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Shockwave wrote: | I have a curious question:
Have any of you actually spoke with a french citizen in the last couple of months (Or in recent years)? Do you take them all to be ugly monsters with women who don't shave? (Paddy likes that)
I suggest that you try to have a civil conversation with one (in either english or french, or maybe german if you need a neutral language). You may be surprised that our media is not representing their society well. Maybe like other media plays the americans to be so evil.
Guess who owns their largest paper? Their largest defense contractor. No wonder they get confused.
So, lets spread love in this world not this hate. It is over and done with, let it rest. |
don't make judgements just because of what you see.
so many things said/shown are a setup. try what shockwave said. try having a conversation with them.
don't blame them cause their governement said no. they have nothing to do with that disicion.
i live just at the border of France and i can say that french people aren't that bad as people always seem to thing.
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Kjeldorian Royal Guard 42
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You may be surprised that our media is not representing their society well. |
Drama. If the news isn't "exciting" people change the channel. Journalists can turn a cat stuck in a tree into a debate over whether or not humans are forcing animals to seek out new living arrangements and evolutionary changes. 
They do the same when reporting on other nations as well. You can't believe everything that you breathe. You get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve. So shave your face with some mace in the dark. Saving all your food stamps and burning down the trailer park. Yo. . . connect.
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SpeCies
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, I will have to make one apology and it's not going to be on my opinion of France either. I am sorry Paddyjack if I offended you, I forgot that you are French Canadian  My opinions on france stem from the actions of their government and not directly towards it's citizens or distant transients. I have always been what you call a proud american and I am just tired of getting shit on by other countries who we've stuck our necks out for is all. So, please don't take my opinions as a direct attack upon you personally.
I don't have anything against Canadians. I mean, who would we have to practice dropping our ordinance on when we run out of hostiles to kill 
<Shockwave> Woman with of any origin that don't shave just sends chills up my spine  Woman with sweaty hairy arm pits just isn't attractive imo
| Paddyjack wrote: | | Shockwave wrote: | I have a curious question:
Have any of you actually spoke with a french citizen in the last couple of months (Or in recent years)? Do you take them all to be ugly monsters with women who don't shave? (Paddy likes that)
I suggest that you try to have a civil conversation with one (in either english or french, or maybe german if you need a neutral language). You may be surprised that our media is not representing their society well. Maybe like other media plays the americans to be so evil.
Guess who owns their largest paper? Their largest defense contractor. No wonder they get confused.
So, lets spread love in this world not this hate. It is over and done with, let it rest. |
Indeed.
As a french canadian, I have access to USA TV channels, Canadian channels, and also one France channel.
What I saw on the news regarding the war was not the same depending of the channels. Sad to say, but the medias are controlling people's opinion. After all, that is usually where you get 80% of your informations on a given topic.
This winter in Quebec, I've seen the power of the medias at work. Thewz can also testify how a single TV show succeeded in making the promotion of 14 young artists without experience (like american Idols), enough so that 500 000 CDs has been sold..... remember we are 7 000 000 in Quebec. This was done by a huge campaign involving TVs, newspapers, and periodics.
It was amazing to see the effect on the population |
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sharkbyte
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| SpeCies wrote: | | Paddyjack......distant transient. |
I'm sorry to hear that, Paddy. Hey, if you need a place to stay, let me know. 
Note: This is an attempt at humor. Any reproduction of the above statement(s), for any purpose other than its original intent, is strictly forbidden.
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shockwave
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by shockwave on Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thewz
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Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Shockwave wrote: | <American text>
I must make a note that my opinion is slightly biased.
My sister works for the US Navy teaching at the French Naval Academy and is engaged to a French naval aviator. A few weekends ago I had a long conversation with two of her french students when they came to visit Dallas.
I just wanted to point out my bias.
<end american text>
<Paddyjack text>
Je dois faire une note que mon avis est légèrement décentré.
Ma soeur travaille pour l'enseignement de marine des USA à l'académie navale française et est engagée à un aviateur naval français. Il y a quelques semaines j'ai eu une longue conversation avec deux de ses étudiants français quand ils sont venus pour visiter Dallas.
J'ai juste voulu préciser ma polarisation.
<end paddyjack text> |
Since when do Americans speak more than one language? 
And since when do French Canadians like France??? I was under the impression that the French, and French Canadians see eachother as the scum of the earth.
Well I don't think I could boycott Vivendi. Do any of you realise how many companies they own? Blizzard, universal studios, mp3.com, rolling stone, just to name a few. |
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Thunder
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ya know - we could all get along, but we don’t have to. Don't have the audacity to pee on my head and tell me it’s raining, the fact that France and other countries are helping the Iraqi's is out...and it stinks like last weeks garbage. I'm so sick of other countries and their Anti-American sentiment. We've been there for you "France" more than you will ever be for us.
And as for you Americans who want to give an apology for every supposed affront to some nation that’s got its feelings hurt….DON’T. The number of countries around the world who hate our guts (translation – Jealous of our good fortune) is on the rise.
Don’t think they wont pump us in the rear given half a chance…look at this crap:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85414,00.html
I’m not going to waste my breath trying to act all humble and politically correct to the French the Germans or anybody else. Those countries that throw their hats in with the likes of Saddam Hussein can F –off! If you don’t stand with us you stand against us….(and so be it). You up there in Canada just keep sending us beer, comedians and pot…we might just forgive your French tendencies.
“Red White and Blue – These Colors Don’t Run” ß these aren’t laundry instructions! I served my country for 4 years from 88 to 92 and by God I’ll go sign up for another 4 if I have to.
By the way – Germans protesting for peace???! Give me a break. Can anybody tell me the significance of today? I’ll tell you either way: today is “Holocaust Remembrance Day”. You better think long and hard before you hold any kind of peace protest….there are about 6 MILLION reasons why your chant for peace falls hollow to many an ear. (No I’m not Jewish).
To anybody else that wants to post a response to me…don’t bother. What started out as a good thread has got me barfing a lung. I’m not going to waste my time reading any more of this crap.
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SpeCies
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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It's not all of canada just the french side that is being influenced. Read
As most canadians are you are proud of your history. Americans are as well. I don't mean anything directly hateful towards anyone here regardless of who you are or where you are from. But honestly now >
How many French/French Canadians were killed in the Iraqi war back in 91 and now anyway ? "0"
The topic isn't really an issue to debate over now is it ! Everyone has an opinion, I respect everyone who posted here. So as a proud american I have to standup for what my history states. Fact is fact !
Hell, how would canada feel if america claimed Molson Golden to be a product of ours, The Red Wings an american team, Hortons pastery a product of Crispy Cream ect... Shit if this was the case then you would arm that naval vessel of yours and head a frontal attack on us faster than you can say, "Eh!" to get them back now wouldn't ya
Last edited by SpeCies on Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bada Bing
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Location: Pioneer,Ca. Guild:-TPF-
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SpeCies wrote: | The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag !
Ask the families of all those american soldiers who died defending these ungreatful turncoats from both the Nazis and Russians. What is the real reason why they built the "Chunnel"?
To make it easier for the French government to evacuate to London
Pave France, Britian need's more Parking..... Sorry, but  France !  |
lolz lets see how would that look at the bottom of a sig ?
Sorry, but France ! lol lol I think it would look good Oh and Thunder dude preach on an American who stands up and says  that is rare in these politically correct days 
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Last edited by Bada Bing on Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paddyjack
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Joined: 15 Jan 2002
Location: Québec, Canada Guild: <eVa>
Posts: 1722
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Thewz wrote: |
Since when do Americans speak more than one language?
And since when do French Canadians like France??? I was under the impression that the French, and French Canadians see eachother as the scum of the earth.
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Lol!
The french part of Canada was originally colonized by France, so of course France sees us as inferior barbarians
So here what I say to them regarding that :
| SpeCies wrote: | | Well, I will have to make one apology and it's not going to be on my opinion of France either. I am sorry Paddyjack if I offended you, I forgot that you are French Canadian |
So don't worry Species, I was not offended, I'm just a colonist
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Last edited by Paddyjack on Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paddyjack
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Shockwave wrote: | <American text>
I must make a note that my opinion is slightly biased.
My sister works for the US Navy teaching at the French Naval Academy and is engaged to a French naval aviator. A few weekends ago I had a long conversation with two of her french students when they came to visit Dallas.
I just wanted to point out my bias.
<end american text>
<Paddyjack text>
Je dois faire une note que mon avis est légèrement décentré.
Ma soeur travaille pour l'enseignement de marine des USA à l'académie navale française et est engagée à un aviateur naval français. Il y a quelques semaines j'ai eu une longue conversation avec deux de ses étudiants français quand ils sont venus pour visiter Dallas.
J'ai juste voulu préciser ma polarisation.
<end paddyjack text> |
Because of Shockwave I look like a fool in this thread
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PJ --- ancient IDIOT with a rusty CROWBAR....
but still SWINGING!
Rock2..... JUST SAY NO!!!!! |
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Paddyjack
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| SpeCies wrote: | | It's not all of canada just the french side that is being influenced. Here is an artical that sums it up. Although I don't agree with most of it the statistics do. Read |
Lol!
This article is BS
"Besides the obvious fact that they are a bunch of sniveling cowards, a lot of the reason has to do with the media shaping public opinion (and the French-Canadian media is comprised of a bunch of sniveling cowards):"
"Isn't that sweet? While the Germans are sipping Bordeaux in Paris and Americans, Brits and Aussies are dying all over Europe, French-Canadians were Nazi sympathizers."
French canadians has been known to be ferocious fighters on that beach in France. In fact I heard we were put at the front because of racial issues....
Anybody not believing me is invited to meet me on DoD to see how ferocious *I* can be....
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