[Hamese]

I didn;t want this to get into a flaming argument. But for anyone whos intersted, here it is.


Couple of thoughts for example.

Let's take math. With all of the state testing, TAAS for Texans, the teachers spend their time teaching the class for that test than they do teaching math. They will teach that 2+2=4 but not how it equals four. So now math has turned into a study of memorization and not mathematics. If I don't teach you that 2+3=5 then you wouldn't be able to answer it.

Multiplication is another example. 9x9=81, right, sure but it is worked out like 9+9+9+9+9+9+9+9+9=81. Therefore when students go onto different levels of algebra, algII, calc, they do not have a solid foundation on to which they can do math. They know answers but they weren't taught how to solve it.


As far as the school politics go, my sister-in-law is a science teacher at a Jr. High school. Because schools want to see a good pass/fail ratio, they'll pass any moron who goes through there. Teachers do all they can to pass kids because we wouldn't want to hurt their feelings would we... they might get upset and go into depression. (FYI I am NOT making fun of depressed children). But schools need to get bigger backbones too.

My sister-in-law has teenagers in her class who have learning disorders. Instead of the district placing the children into the proper learning facility, because of money and statistics, they place them in her class and assign an assistant to just that person to help them stay up with the class. However, it only slows the class down making hard to teach kids who are on a faster learning curve.


There are just some thoughts that get to me when it comes to the public education system.
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[thewz]

Yeah Hamese is right, even though Canada's education system was ranked #3 in the world (sorry just had to add that in) marks tend to be given away. Teachers are pressured into making their courses easier and easier. So kids who would normally get 60s and 70s are getting 80s.

Now in Quebec they have even gotten rid of number grading in elementary schools, now marks are "colour coded" so if a child does poorly he might get a yellow mark on his report card rather than a big F or a 58%. God forbid we let children think it's possible for them to fail...




BTW the liberals won the provincial elections last night w00t w00t we've finally gotten rid of the PQ, which means we won't be having any referendums any time soon.

[Chen Kenichi]

Examples acknowlegded, but I strongly disagree on a few points. Please note this is not a flame, simply a debate. My mom is a teacher for dyslexic students. One of my grandfathers taught trigonometry for a university; my other taught ROTC. My grandmother taught elementary. My aunt teaches high school, and my cousin teaches intermediate. It really chaps my butt when people cut down the school system with regard for any other factors.

For instance, your point on 9+9+9+9+9+9+9+9+9=9*9 is a straw man. That is called expanded form multiplication; I learned it in elementary school. Math fundamentals are certainly taught. Just a little thought and effort will extend what you have learned into different fields.

Schools are set up to appease a huge variety of students. In my school at least, there are 3 different levels of each class to take. The highest are similar to college courses. The lowest level are the 'less-intellectual' classes for people who simply don't understand. Even then, many do not pass.

How is it that students can take the same fundamental classes and end up with completely different educations????? The problem with society today is that everyone points at the school! Parents fail to see any connection between them and their child's performance at school. If kids are not taught to take school seriously, then don't expect them to be the next Einsteins.

I myself had no problems with algebra, geometry, and algebra2. I have placed 19th at a UIL state math competition. Infact, no people at my level (highest ) have any problems. Why? We took the same classes in elementary. My answer is because I LISTENED AND STUDIED WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO. Maybe there is a growing increase in discern for school. The probable factor for degenerate students is not the school, so quit pointing.

I agree with Hamese on the TAAS point though. That test was a joke. Fortunately, the TAAS has gasped its last. The state test has been SIGNIFICANTLY modified and offers an actual challenge from what I've seen.

Students with disorders have several options in my school. Many teachers are set aside to help them. I have never ran into a learning-disadvantaged student who hasn't recieved help. Maybe that isn't universal though.

There are MANY programs and clubs availabe for people who wish to achieve even more in their education. I have a personal friend who is taking their first 2 years of college while completing their last two years of highschool. I think Torak is doing the same. I personally like to expand on my knowledge of languages, and the programs for me are endless.

I recently spoke with a doctor who teaches one of my classes. He said that the material he teaches in high school (refering to AP classes) is equivalent to most of what he learned in college. He believes the school system is becoming MUCH more endeavouring.

Of course, there will always be flaws. From my standpoint though, the fissures are being reduced, not widened.
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[Spanish Warpig]

hte only hard test ive taken was the sat and thats only cause it had been several years snice i had studied any of the math on there because i took all the more adavanced classes

[Twisted29]

Like anything else in life....what you get out of school is directly related to how much you put into it.

Some kids don't care about education, so they wont get one. Its not a fair representation of all students. And yes, I've met teachers that dont care either...which is just unfair for everyone.

Anyway, I didn't mean to rant...or even post here at all. Funny how things like that happen....


(BTW, while we get off topic on math tests...this is my favorite. I go through it every year http://www.unl.edu/amc/a-activities/a7-problems/putnam/)

[Secret Agent Man]

Some schools like mine (Claremont, CA..one of the best public schools in CA) Do have difficult corses... Its true how much effort you put into it is how much you get back. But in some cases that isnt true...e.g.. myself...i completly suck at math and english, yes i have made soem mistakes when i was younger, which i regret. I have spent count less hours doing math, and also countless hours with my english teachers...i get it when im in the class room but when i go home.. bam.. everything lost.... but with other classes... Cell Biology, World Geography, government, and history, i score high in those classes...just no effort... i can just sit down in class and get it...

Also...all of my teachers in my school just keep on teaching....if your not paying attention or just f'ing around in class... they wont stop and explain it to you...like " if you dont put your time into it.. why should the teacher?" they dont give a fudge... they will just fail you on the spot...

iono... ill just shut up.. just sharing...i'll go now.....
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if you think thats a soldier behind you? think
agian, or my knife will be in your back.


aa, oshiete sensei-san

[Hamese]

I agree with your comments Chen, I just have some other comments for ya

Your statements on expanded form multiplication are valid. I learned it too while in elementary school. However, I help teens all the time in algI because they haven't learned "could have been taught, possibly" good foundation to figure out the problem. I even notice it with college students. Regardless, your point about parents teaching their own kids about how important school is could be the root of the problem.

I couldn't agree more that parents need to start disciplining their children and take charge of situations. Instead of sheltering their feelings and having this thought about how it is never their fault... the "my child would never do that" attitude. Stop feeding your kids Ritalin and saying that they are A.D.D, or ADHD, and take some responsibility with them (I am NOT saying all kids should not take Ritalin and that ADD and ADHD or fake. Just that if a kid has a problem the scapegoat is the disorder, which in a good bit of cases isn't the case at all). This is a whole other discussion though.

Parents need to be pointed to more often in various situations, not just education. I still believe the schools should be more willing to fail students that deserve it, and not hold back because of school ratings. That's the biggest issue I argue. If that were the case students might realize on their own how important it is.
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