[FragFailure]

Grenades, your best friend spy. Most people use a grenade as spam. A good player uses a grenade as a weapon to compliment what they have. This works for every class except a scout who has the caltrop.

To learn usuage of grenades

1. Learn how treat a grenade as a weapon
2. Prime grenades
3. Bank shots
4. High angle throws
5. Two for One

1. Never, never, never just throw grenades for the hell of it UNLESS you are about to die or you know someone is in a spot you can't see. Otherwise they are a waste (unless you are an engie with emps.)

2. Prime grenades, covered this in the last post. Quick rundown, hold down main grenade button to start the timer, release and throw it, don't hold it for too long or you'll blow yourself up.

3. Bank shots - Use the wall and the ground as your friend. Practice bouncing a grenade off the wall in certain spots. It works great again an sg you can't beat. This one just takes practicing on theville or on your own time. Just try one and see where the grenade ends up. I use bank shots for sg's by 3 and the first room to the right after 2 if there is a sg there.

4. High angle throws are the ones you use for destroying sg's. This is helpful in a few spots on the map.

5. If there are stupidly 2 sg's close to each other. Throw it right between them and make them pay for doing that.

The first spot is by command one to throw it in the bldg to clear it out. Hit the ceiling in there so you dont end up throwing it down the stairs on the other side.

Heading towards two, the first ramp (not the first short ramp to the right, but the second one that goes back up to the left) that goes up in front of you may have an sg. Throw one out of your view and over the top of that ramp to kill it blind.

By three, the one by the ledge right by the command point. Throw one up at a 75 degree angle so your grenade does not bounce off the ledge. It should stay up there.


Oh dear, snipers. The bastards we cuss at when they got our number. There's nothing like like coming out of your spawn and becoming wall art courtesy of Snakeyes, Mr. Gib's, MunkeyEye, Spanish Warpig, John Doe (read previous post of ownage) or even nasty ol me on a rare occasion when I get hot.

What to do.

Offense

For command 1 there are five spots the sniper will setup. The main two are the left on right ledges heading towards two. You will may see one up by command one, one covering the left exit out of your main spawn, and one covering the right spawn on top of the canopy on the first bldg or by the railing itself.

For the railing and canopy. Just dance around and prime a grenade (read previous post of knowledge.) All this takes is timing and aim. A smart sniper will fall back. On the ledges you can prime a grenade and throw one up. They will either run or die.

By three I take the least used path and prime grenades for the snipers on the ledges. If you take them out you can duck/jump up to the church door and dump one in the tower window and kill the sniper. The sniper by the command point or on the top of the two flights of steps is hard too. You have to get near the bottom of the two flights of steps and throw the grenade at a high angle up to him. throw it like you want to throw it past him

By four the one going up the right side is difficult if he's really good. The gravity reaction is wrong because the grenade picks up speed as it goes up the ramp toward him rather than losing speed. You can throw that nade from the archway and it will make him run. The back ledge by the church is the same as the ledge by 3.

Defense

There are only two spot a sniper feels comforatble

Respawn

If you feel brave and want to take him out. Never jump over the railing in a straight line. Always when you jump over the railing to have your grenade ready to throw.

The balcony

Either spam or get brave and go after them. Just make sure they aren't ready for you. there's more to it, but I think I'll throw the floor open to the others and their tips on this.

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- PWG member 2001
- TVB founder and leader 2001-2004
- The Ville's Vegas Bashes I-V
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- The Originator of the Off-Topic Posts

[Bakuryu]

Excellent tips frag. I figured out how to do something as any class. You can bounce grenades off yourself if they haven't been primed for a while. I used it yesterday and bounced a grenade right back at a spy . Also on warpath there are places you can get to that spies will almost never get you on. The best ones are on the rooftops of cp's 2 and 4. I've grenade jumped on top of them and sniped many an unsuspecting victim.

[John Doe]

Excellent tips Frag. I am going to bring back yours and the others from the previous forums this weekend if I can.

I will stuff them in my bowl forum.

JD

[TIII]

Next to good snipers.. I find non noobie HW's the most hated enemy. Many times I'm able to just do what a spy does and pretend I'm on their team (usually they believe this until they respawn seconds later). But, the good ones read names, stats, and do simple spy checks. What's your first response to a good one.

Also, The entrances to CP3 are pretty tough as a spy. Good snipers can control the ledge and the Demo's, HW's, and Soldiers can control the door. Any secrets to getting through to cause mayhem behind enemy lines?

T

[Warhammer]

I think the key to both defending and capturing CP3 lies in controlling the far entry point from the capture point, through the building with the ramps and little room.

On offense, a medic/spy/scout will be able to distract defending engineers by using nail guns against unattended SG's. If nothing else, it will distract the defenders and pull them over behind the building so that the main assault can push up the street. Unattended SG's placed in this area can easily be taken out by banking grenades or pipebombs through the ramp entrance. Especially if they are primed and timed, they'll kill that engy before he can take cover. Once offense breaks through this area, it's often trivial to take out the SG's covering CP3. Toss a grenade or three into the sniper deck to clear them out. Often there are no snipers covering the alley to CP4 while the offense is going for CP3, unless it's clear they're trying to push through the building.

On defense, I am going on the assumption there is at least one SG covering CP3, either on the first ledge up (out of sight of snipers on the balcony, of course) or the second ledge against the wall by CP3. And please, don't put your FIRST SG in the corner behind CP3. It will be useless and easily taken out by two grenades tossed through CP3.

That said, as a defending engy at CP3, I found amazing effectiveness in building a SG in line with the canopy next to the bag. Turn it so it faces the bag, and it will get attackers coming through the ramp/door, the window of the small room, and the main approach. I will also build a dispenser in the door near the ramp so I am alerted when baddies are trying to come through. Nothing suprises them more than an EMP banking around the corner while they're priming a grenade (or the dispenser suddenly blowing up!) Also the way grenades tend to bounce in that area, if you stand on the opposite side of your SG from the door you have a good chance of being able to avoid any grenade explosions. Remember, if a grenade lands by your SG, move to the opposite side of the SG from it and DUCK, and you won't get hurt at all! Keep wacking your SG with the hammer (don't run out of metal, doh!) and only a MIRV or pipe bombs will be able to take you out. Again, a sniper covering the alley to CP4 will back up the engy and help take out spies coming through.

But you want to be a really annoying defensive engy, you say? Get up on the awning over the doorway (emp jump or build a dispenser and jump on it), and build a SG on top of it. Get a fellow engy to toss you bags. Quite difficult to kill, IMHO, especially if you have a disp up there to keep reloading it with. Just watch out for Frag, he will hone in on you and chuck many grenades in your general direction. Make sure you have room to maneuver around your SG to avoid the explosions, and you will be the bane of all of the attackers.

[Warhammer]

I just realized that TIII was talking about the entry point above CP2, not the approach to CP3. I think that unless there are several snipers covering the balcony, that's your entry point. Get three or four people to go through at once, especially soldiers, demomen, etc. and you have a good chance of pushing through, especially if defense has a SG covering the other door. If I'm on offense and the other team is covering this area effectively, I will go engy (toss an EMP or two in the area to clear out the baddies) and keep trying to build a SG next to the bag. Once it's up at least to level 2, it will take care of any more defenders trying to push us back.

[CyC0Dad]

There is no better server than the Ville to get schooled as a spy. I LOVE to hear the whinning of newbie (new to AV at least) spies when you snipe them 4 or 5 times in a row. Man the accusations start flying fast. There are a lot of really good spies on AV and that leads to really good spy catchers.

I can't tell you what to do to be a better spy, but I can tell you what you shouldn't do. Don't keep using the same disguise and taking the same route. Be very particular where you feign. Stay out of paths (except maybe near friendly SGS, and don't do it while being chased. That might work on some servers but has little chance on the Ville. I had someone tell me I was a Puss because I was standing on him and crowbar killing him for the 3rd time. Get a clue, I catch you feigned, I WILL humiliate you (paybacks for being such a sneak)

T II is correct, cap 3 SHOULD be the hardest cap point to sneak up on. As a snipe the ones that get by me usually come from the balcony and then go up the ramp and either through the little window (gotcha) or around the corner where I hope an Engy has built a dispenser. If the defense works well together, no spy should get through. Of course, it is a public server, so you need to find the weakest link in the chain. Look for snipes killing themselves and you can probably fit in with the Noob Engys with RayGuns on the NME team My biggest problem spotting spies is often my own teammates act more like spies than the spies do.

Being an Engy is how I learned to spot spies (after the fact for quite a while) but it was usually hard for me to kill them since I have less armor and am slower. (Doesn't seem very fair to me) so I often take my spotting skills to other classe to exact my revenge. T III is also correct that good players check names and health and I learn who is spying on the other team and watch the deaths for their names as well. Nothing more suspicious than a fully healthed soldier running back for packs

Be sure you choose a class the NME team has and change on the way in if you can. Snipers are suspect coming from the front but once you get past as say a soldier or demo you look suspicious behind the lines. Snipers, Engies and non newb HW tend to spot spies more, while medics, pyros, scouts and other spies will make your disguise less effective so should be avoided. My advice for a spy to get to cap 3 is to come in with a large group right up the middle. If you go the balcony path, pick a new disguise before jumping off balcony so it will change before you go through the window or run up the middle.

Last bit of advice is get good at jumping smoothly out the window. I've personally nailed a lot of spies that got temporarily stuck jumping out the window. The ones that get past me (FRAG !!) make a clean quick jump through the window.



[ This Message was edited by: cycodad on 2001-08-25 13:25 ]

[ This Message was edited by: cycodad on 2001-08-25 13:28 ]

[ROOFCUTTER]

In my limited but growing skills as spy, here's a little tip. When I'm trying to sneak into the backfield of cp3, as well as using the great tips above try this. Before you step thru the portal leading to the side tunnel to cp4 or the window to cp3 or for any of the entrances to cp3 I look at the wall where the sniper's red dots are dancing if you pause a few seconds and dont see any dots than run and jump in a sideways motion and get back out of sight of any snipers. Only the best will get you if your quick and usually not everytime. Another way is to wait until one of your team mates get their heads painted on the wall than run hoping there is only one sniper lined up on you access spot. I don,t know if this falls into TFC spirit though. What I do know is that the above posts have greatly improved my game and my appreciation of the spy class as I'm a solider fanatic. I'll be interested to hear what the snipers have to say about their red dots and if they try to hide them.

_________________
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[ice]

indeed indeed hmmmm nice nice...hmmm indeed

[MunkeyEye]

Though I'm starting to get into the soldier and scout roles more, I still love playing a sniper. Something about the "splat" sound that makes it soooo addictive.

But back to Roofcutter's comments, i try to dance my little red dot on a wall that is facing away from the oncoming enemy. Pretty obvious so that they think the coast is clear. That, imho, is pretty important, especially when you have soldiers/pyros seeing it and guesstimating(?) your position and firing a few volleys into your locale. God, i hate flames... It also alerts enemy snipers to your location as well, which can be dangerous esp if you're dealing with Mr.Gibs, Spanish Warpig, and ALL YOU OTHER b$@#!$ds that keep blasting my head off!!!! heh... anyhooo...

Always keep your sniper rifle fully charged, even if it might mean letting an enemy slip through the cracks. Coz the last thing you want to do is annoy a soldier with a lame shot and have him send a rocket or two your way. So make each shot count. It's better to kill 3 out of 5 enemies that come your way than to hurt all of them. Saves your team the trouble of finishing them off (five as opposed to just 2 nme for example), and potentially leaving them with half their health - translation: they have to leave their positions to get health.

I personally find that for half-charged headshots and lamo bodyshots, scouts, engys, and snipers can be toast(in order of damage done). For fully-charged body shots, medics, spies, soldiers and pyros (in order of damage) are downed. HW are easy to take out with a fully charged headshot coz they're slow-moving unless he zig-zags alot.

If you can, I would suggest going for headshots most of the time coz you stand a much higher kill probability...unless you miss of course. Heh, I remember there was a time when I would only gauge my sniping ability by headshots alone. Now everyone's getting better to a point that it's hard being an offensive sniper unless you stay waaay back and support.

I like to anticipate the enemy's direction and wait for him to come to my sights. I find that it has a higher chance for my bullets to connect than if I were to chase him around in my scopes.

What I do also is to strafe left and right (keep moving) while moving my mouse (right and left-in opposite direction) to keep my lil red dot at the same spot. The former is to buy you that fraction of a second in case an enemy sniper spots you, fires, and hopefully misses; while the latter is so that you can easily launch your red dot onto an enemy quickly. Takes some practice but I find that move quite effective.

Finally hardware.... I've tries many different mice(?) and the best one I've found are the IR ones. It allows for very precise and responsive scope movement, esp when you're zoomed in. It isn't very necessary for the other classes, but indispensible for the sniper role i feel.

anyways, that's just my 2 cents, and as always, I expect change back for that!

----------------------------
MunkeyEye.[LB]
"I'll probably get disbarred from the Sniper Association for posting this....." damn, and i just paid my annual dues too.

[ROOFCUTTER]

Heres some older wisdom for our newer players
_________________
Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering.

[Trigger Happy]

Those are good tips man no doubt. I hope people use them because every now and then I see people just throw nades at me without priming them. Can you say SPAM? A spam tactic is funny at times because you don't know where the heck they are throwing it at and you end up thinking you in a middle of a mind field or some sort. I see a lot of people make that mistake and it is a real waste of your nades IMHO. I mean, seriously are you really going to spam one person by throwing all your first/second nades at them. The smarter player would just move out of the way and the unexperienced one will just stand there like," Uhhhh, did you just throw spam at me?" Good stuff.
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- Sig Made By <TVB>Bada^Bing-TPF-

[Twisted29]

Heh I thought that sounded familiar!!

Afte seeing Bak, Ice and TIII respond, I knew something had to be going on
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I'm really quite Non-Twisted... (but don't tell anybody!)

Long live the Ville!!!!