[John Doe]

Here you go, the original threads.

Here is the thread on how to be a better Engineer, thanks to SuperZero for all his input. I have tried to give credit to everyone who posted the original threads.


How to be a better Engineer!


Alright, this was touched on briefly in the how to spot spy threads, I expect Superzero will run us out of disk space if he posts all he knows Here are some items that Cycodad said, everyone should pay attention!



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Great comments on SPY vs SPY techniques. A lot of people don't do that because of stats but it sure is a pain when a SPY blocks the church entry. I also hate it when I bump a disguised spy in NME territory and get mowed down by the SGs
Best point is TeamPlay , protect SGs from spies and they will protect you. I've seldom seen any Team defend well without a couple SGs. But I have seen Good Teams get embarrased because their spies were all stabbing behind the lines and a lone spy took out the SGs and capped 3 and 4 with no delay because of it.

While on the subject, TOSS PACKS PEOPLE !! Only a couple of players seem to even think about it. If you need the heatlh and take a pack an engie is trying to get, TOSS the extra.

And quit taking packs you don't need like by the church right after respawn. You respawn with full health, armor and ammo (except grens) on Avanti. Only the engie is down 50 metal at respawn as far as I know. A gun needs to be level 3 to have a chance against HW and standard grens. One pack can be the diff between a gun staying up or going down.

But I guess that should be in a TEAM Play post or a Build a better SG post


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John Doe


A few other engy thoughts while they are still fresh in my head.
Help your team members build & upgrade their SGs, the sooner they are at level 3, the better.

Build dispensers, I am not real good at detonating them when needed, but I use them to block doorways to slow the enemy down so my SG can take care of them. Also I use them to detect spys. If it tells you enemies are using your despenser and all you see is a engy with a railgun, you had better start shooting the bastard before your SG is destroyed.

A tip for all players on the team, toss your extra bags to the engys, they can always use it. It doesnt take much to press X as your running by the engy. This is real nice when building SGs at CP1, where time is of the essence.

I'm looking forward to SuperZeros posts, I am hoping to get some good tips on grenade tossing, sg placement, and all sorts of other items.


JD


<PWG>SuperZero
Re:How to be a better Engineer! (sgs part 1)


Well, guess I'll throw whatever I can think of out at you. Bear in mind that I'm still learning myself, so if I miss something be sure to post it here. The first thing I should say is that if you plan on playing as an engy often, you NEED two keys bound: det_sentry and det_dispensor. This is incredibly useful. OK, I'm gonna try and divide this up a bit, this first post will be about the basics of sgs:
1.) The sg is your most important weapon. Get it to level 3 ASAP. If you see an engy building, help him. Toss packs or hit it w/ your wrench if you're an engy, it's important that you get up to lvl 3 or it will have no chance against heavies. Protect it at all costs, even your own life. Most of my deaths when I engy are because I try to heal my gun when a gren goes off in my face (or sometimes the sg). Don't let it get you down.

2.) Placement is very important. You need to think of 4 basic things when you build an sg. Firstly, is it guarding a traveled area? If not, it's pretty worthless. Secondly, does it have enough space to kill or significantly hurt the enemy, or is it easy to run right past? Thirdly, is it either out of sight of rockets, sniper rifles, or nailguns or guarded by another sg? (in other words, if there is an angle of attack in your sg's blindspot or out of range, you NEED that area guarded by another sg or player). Finally, is it in a difficult spot for grenades to hit it? The last point is major, and brings up a rule of thumb...try to avoid building on the ground. This is the easiest spot for a gren to nail it. Building on a raised area means that grens have a chance of bouncing right off and not even touching the sg. This is by no means foolproof, but every bit counts.

3.) Keep your sg stocked and fully repaired at all times. Killing an hw can take up to 20% of your ammo, so you need full ammo and rockets as much as possible. Even a couple % of health can be the difference between that nail grenade killing off your gun or it living to kill another runner.

4.) Repair EVERYONE's sgs. Is it so hard to hit a friend's sg as you run past it? Nope. Be sure to do it, they'll appreciate it and maybe even return the favor.

5.) Watch for spies. See the spy checking thread here, but engies need to be born paranoid to protect the big guns.


6.) Believe it or not, the det_sentry key can come in handy not just for when you want to move your sg, but to confuse people as well. A few times I've watched an hw or two just mauling my sg...I knew it was gonna die, so I detted it. They thought the threat was gone and trotted forward...as I ran up behind them w/ a primed emp. And they say deception is a SPY's job Wish this sorta trick worked more often at the Ville, but the players here tend to be smarter than that. Still, keep it in mind...that sorta thing can be useful. I've also killed spies that had already dropped 2 grens by the sg by detting the doomed weapon in their faces. They "loved" it.
7.) Remember that your sg will die. A lot. I mean a LOT. Rebuild it, move on, don't let it stop you. Be sure to move the sg's position every time, even if only by a little bit. Three virtual feet in either direction can throw off an enemy expecting the sg elsewhere and cause hesitation...that's all you need.

8.) If you can emp jump (I can't) or dispenser jump (I'm a little better at that, but not much) or gren jump (that also is hazardous to my health), USE IT. Build your sg in a ridiculous place that the enemy just can't reach most of the time. On top of awnings, buildings that you can't normally reach, ledges...these are fun, but rely on your teammates tossing ammo to you. I almost never do this in normal games, because I just don't expect anyone to toss me ammo, but it's a good skill to work on. (Personally, I need more practice at this)

9.) Don't work alone. Have a soldier, hw, or spy for every couple engies. Any of these classes can help you dispatch enemy spies quite easily, and if the enemy can't kill your guns, he ain't goin anywhere soon.

That's all off the top of my head and pretty basic, hopefully I've touched on most of the sg basics. If not, add to the thread, there's a lot of quality engies out there who likely know more about it than me, so don't be shy!


<PWG>SuperZero
Re:How to be a better Engineer! (disp)


Alrighty, moving on to one of my favorite tools/weapons in the game, the dispenser! This is something I rarely see engies using, but it's KEY to pair these up with your guns. Again, I'll try to shoot anything I can think of out there for ya, hope it helps.
1.) Most maps have 2 routes that the enemy can take. Your sg can only cover one of those, so use your dispenser to cover the other (the narrower one if possible). For example, on cp2 at Avanti, I like to build a gun covering the cp itself and a dispenser blocking the hallway to the right, where the snipers like to hang out. If someone tries to sneak up behind the sg, I get the message and blow them apart. Remember to bind a key to det the dispenser!

2.) Use dispensers to spycheck. If you see a "friendly" touching your dispenser and you're getting the enemy message, det it, he's a spy. If it doesn't kill him, finish the job w/ your shotgun.

3.) Always fill your dispensers! Get ammo again and run to your disp. Crouch and hit it w/ your wrench until it has 400 cells. It will blow BIG now, and has more ammo to give to your teammates.

4.) Use dispensers to protect your guns. If your sg has a blindspot, put a dispenser in that spot. If the enemy is stupid, he'll try to destroy the sg right next to your dispenser and you can blow him into next week. If he's smart, he'll destroy your dispenser first and you'll know he's coming. Either way, it gives you an advantage you didn't have before.

5.) Use dispensers to create roadblocks. This is basically what I do when I want to kill someone...I stop up a hallway and when a crowd of enemies gathers around the dispenser, I det it. But even if you SUCK at detting the things, block up hallways. You'll cause the enemy to slow down, bunch up, and generally be annoying. Even the little things count, be sure to use them.

6.) Dispensers are the engie's equivalent of pipebombs. Use them as such...place them where the enemy pretty much has to go, and watch for them to show up. Det it, lather, rinse, repeat. This is mainly for you sickos that like to kill with dispensers just for the hilarity factor (note: I am one of above-mentioned sickos)

That's most of the general info for dispensers I can think of. As with the sgs, I'm trying not to be map specific b/c even though I know most of you love Avanti, I want to give ideas that will help you ANYWHERE, not just the Aville maps.


Re:How to be a better Engineer! (combat)


OK, let's face it...if all you do is sit behind your sg and hit it, you aren't doing much and you aren't very adaptable to the situation. Sooner or later, you need to learn how to fight. This can be tough, because stats-wise the engineer only beats out the scout in toughness, so you can't take much punishment. He does have some quality weapons, though. (One hint though...always make sure at least one engy is watching the sgs, just in case)
1.) Grenades: you throw it, it blows up...I'm sure y'all can figure this one out on your own.

2.) Rail gun. Yeah, in most situations it's a piece of crap, but in others it's ridiculously useful. This thing has trememdous accuracy at long range, and loses no power at range. In other words, this is a sniper/sg killer. At close range, you better be aiming for the head and hoping that the enemy doesn't see you (and out of shotgun ammo) if you're using this thing.

3.) Supershotgun. This is a helluva weapon at close range. Get in close, keep moving, and aim for the head. Even the heavy classes can't take too many headshots from this. It's not a good idea to go 1 on 1 w/ an hw, but pretty much any other class can be in some serious trouble unless they're good players...well, or if you're really bad, but I'm gonna assume that you're engy masters

4.) EMP. "And then God said...oh, what the hell, give those wrench totin' chain smokers emps. And it was good. Very, very good." (I'm going to hell for that one, I can feel it) These things are amazing. Very simple principle...the more ammo in it's blast radius, the bigger the explosion. Learn to prime these things, b/c they're most useful against classes that will rip you to shreds if you miss the first toss. Learn where there are bottlenecks and sniper hangouts and toss primed emps there when you see shots fired. If you start seeing a lot of sniper kills, watch where he's shooting, figure out the angle, and emp him. If you see a soldier dancing in and out of an sg's view, toss an emp at him...odds are he's not alone. These things are so useful that I could go on and on about them, but the key is to prime them and toss them so they blow up right in the enemy's face. You will die a LOT at first on emp runs, b/c until you get good at it you'll get shredded by return fire. Once you DO get good at it, though, there won't be anyone left to return fire

5.) Wrench. Watch for spies to feign and bludgeon them to death. It's hilarious. Otherwise, only use this if you have NO ammo left or you're suicidal. Oh, or if you're a dueler (love dueling!!).

OK, those are my basic posts...I KNOW I missed stuff, all of this was off the top of my head and I'm new enough to the game that I still don't know a lot of neat tricks and all. If you see something I missed, share it! By all means, I want to know too if I didn't just forget it, and so will any other engies out there! I can post more specific stuff if there are any specific q's, but I really hope this is all helpful and at least gets people started. Good luck and happy hunting all!


cstone
Re:How to be a better Engineer! [disp-gren jump]


How to dispenser-grenade-jump:
Build a dispenser
Toss a regular grenade at its base
Then jump on the dispenser
Jump right as the grenade goes off.

This accomplishes a sort of mini conc-jump. You dont cover much distance, and you will take damage, but it is enough to build on the rafters in crossover2 and probably could get you up to the overhang in Avanti on the far side of cap point 3.

If you jump on a grenade without the distance that the dispenser provides you will die. And EMP-jumps are unreliable


CyCoDad
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Great Tips , SuperZero !! What a scarry thought, "You still learning how to Engie".
I have the detdispenser key but not the detsentry. I'll have to add that.

I usually place my dispenser in doors, or around corners where the NME is on it before they know it. A full dispenser has a fair amount of range so it doesn't need to be right next to them when it blows to get a kill.

Excellent point about repairing OTHER SGs. Sometimes I wonder if people even know you can ! Team Play ! I die more often trying to maintain someone elses SG in a key spot than almost anything else. If I can get even 1 hit between grens there is a good chance it will survive.

I've seen Cycomom maintain 3 SGs all by herself and other times I've seen it take 3 engies to maintain 1 SG. Just depends on circumstances and NME skill level.

FACT: 1 level 3 gun is better than 3 level 1 guns ( I know this because Cycomom tells me that all the time ). Unless you are waiting for the gates to open or you know you have time, try to get the first SG placed by an Engie, upgraded, BEFORE building yours. That is unless they choose a bad location and it's going down anyway

A trick to build SGs in places where packs are hard to come by is, build the dispenser first. If you get the time, you can build the SG surprisingly quickly. I've done this when I get blown on top of something and have so little health left it isn't safe to jump down.

Super is so right when he says your SG will be destroyed. There is no place on any map yet that I've played where the SG can't be taken down. Do your best to keep it safe but be prepared, because it will be taken out eventually.

SGs aren't just for Defense. They are usefull for holding ground taken and dealing with those Evil Medics that somehow get past the front lines. They are very usefull when the NME players tend to be overly aggresive on defense.

I can't add much here, as I'm a fairly novice engineer, but I would like to say one thing which I believe is important:

It doesn't take skill to build a SG where the NME is respawning, just timing. It can be funny in a friendly game with people you know but a REAL irratant on public servers. It is against the rules on Avantiville and is just plain Lame !! Ocasionally you will have a SG up when the next point gets capped and that area becomes the new respawn. Play fair, destroy your SG

Have fun people and remember , keep those packs coming


Warhammer -TPF-
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Here are some other tips on being an engy..
When possible, make sure you can walk all the way around your SG (don't build it up against a wall when possible). This has a few advantages:

1) When soldiers fire rockets at it and miss, the impact off the wall won't damage your sentry as much.

2) If an enemy tosses two or three grenades at your SG, all is not lost. Remember what order they were thrown in, since they were likely not primed before they were thrown. Crouch down on the exact opposite side of the SG as the grenade, and you will take no damage from the grenade. Scurry to the opposite side of the next grenade, lather, rinse, and repeat, repairing your sentry after each explosion. Note this probably exposes your cushy rear to that enemy HWG coming up behind you, but while you're crouched the SG will shoot over your head in most cases.

On dispensers:

If you are going for good dispenser kills, build them somewhat out of the way, where they won't be taken out by random rocket/AC/grenade/pipebomb spray. Put it against a wall, wait for a poor sap to walk by, and BOOM! Of course, make sure you've got detdispenser bound to something.

Date: Jun 23, 2001 on 07:00 p.m.

<PWG>LilBigCip
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Have a couple of thing to correct and add. First, the bind to detonate a dispenser is detdispenser. One thing that I don't see enough people doing is guarding the engy while they are building. I really hate when a spy or medic comes up while I'm building and kills or infects me before I can stop building. I find that you should try to stay away from you sg unless it needs health. 80% ammo will last you a long time and not putting more ammo in might save you a death or 2. If you do die it's a hell of a run back to your sg and that is usually the time sgs get kill.I'm not saying to stay really far away but, just far enough that you won't get exploded. One thing that teams don't do enough that really pisses me off is they don't spy check. You have to do it a least every 1 minute at tops. Once the spys get your sgs your teams defense will be broken. That's all I have to add might come up with something soon.


<PWG>SuperZero
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Both binds for the dispenser work. I know cuz I have mine bound the way I said earlier and it works every time


<PWG>LilBigCip
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


One more thing I think its a good idea if you build you sg in the line of sight with your dispenser. This way you can look through you r sgcam and det if you see someone trying to walk around it.


Sully
14. Re:How to be a better Engineer!


This is all very well and good, but what about those of us grunts who don't make 'em, we just want to take 'em out.
A couple of things that soldier boys like me might want to try.
1. It's true that a rocket that hits the wall right next to a sg doesn't do as much damage, but it does do something even more important. It kills the engie behind the gun who's wackin' it with his wrench. If you don't kill the engie, he'll fix the gun and you can fire on it all day with no effect. Actually, you can't fire on it all day because those engie's usually have friends with big guns who shoot you a lot.
Remember, engie first, then gun.

2. The nail grenade is incredibly effective against sg's. It has the added bonus of damaging the engie too, if you put it in the right place. Also, as I'm sure everyone knows, the nail grenade levitates when dispersing it's shrapnel, and it will hover above the point where it goes off. So if you prime it, you can get it to hover several feet off of the ground. This is handy when you have a gun that is elevated or above you. You can prime it and throw it up in the air and it will hover next to the gun and kill it.

3. If you are capping, you can rocket jump past an sg that only has a limited field of fire. An example is when capping point 1 on Aville. Some engies build guns in the little side street. You can jump past them and only take a little damage, cap and then kill the gun.

4. Keep in mind, once an sg has a target, it won't stop until that target is decommissioned or out of it's field of fire. If a teamate leads and starts to take sg fire, step in and kill the sg while it is focused on the other person. This is especially effective when the target is a HWguy because it takes a while for them to go down.

Anything else anyone wants to add, I'd love to see it. I feel the same way as SuperZero, there is a lot of stuff to learn.



FingerDemon
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Just wanted to say thanks to SuperZero for his dispenser tips. As proof of how useful it is, I have moved to #1 in dispenser kills since I learned from SZ that you can load the things with lots of ammo before blowing them up.
Also, it gives you something to do when the enemy hasn't gotten to your sgs, but you don't feel like getting killed attacking them aggressively. Good spy catchers too.

Thanks Zero! And other tipsters, too!

FingerDemon


<PWG>SuperZero
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Glad you're enjoying those dispensers, FingerDemon I love em myself, too. Some of my fav spots are in cp's 2 and 4 on Warpath (unless you're expecting them, you won't even see them til it's too late), and all those fun bottlenecks at Avanti.
One thing I completely forgot to mention in all these other posts and realized tonight was this: don't build next to another engi's sg. We HATE that. Not only is it ineffectual (just an extra gun with the same line of sight, only covers the same area) but it makes it painfully easy to destroy BOTH guns with one emp, mirv, nailgren, or even a couple regular grenades. I've seen peeps do this (and had it done to me) both because they didn't know better and because they wanted to steal kills from the other sg. I don't really give a damn about the kills unless I'm crowbarring/wrenching/medikitting a feigning spy or something (hehehe), but clumping the sgs together is just asking for trouble against a talented team...and one thing the ville has plenty of is talent.

OK, sorry for continuously rambling on this topic, but I figure whatever I can throw out there (even if it's obvious to many) might help at least SOMEBODY out, so why not?

On a sorta related note, how about some of you aces at other classes/skills share your thoughts here as well? It'd be great to have nine class strats and some general tactics posts up here, especially for those trying to learn or improve certain classes (like me).

Cya'll in the ville!



Mortem-TPF-
Re:How to be a better Engineer!


Following sully's suit!
How to destroy an sg:
Medic- Medics have a super nail gun very efective weapon to take out sg's even if the ngy is wacking the sg while u r shooting at it eventually the supernails will win the battle. How ever the medic needs to be covered or if he can sneak in and finds an unattended SG. gotta love that!!
Scout - same as medic nails not as powerful and if the sg is being fixed by the engy the scout will loose the battle. A scout can strafe around the sg and kill it with nails he is fast enough.

Engys have two was to take out sg's one rail gun used the same way as the nails from a safe distance, and the mighty emp. Just trow the emp close to the sg if it is fully loaded it will explode hopefully taking out the engy with it.

HW and Demos- Two words "Mirv grenedes" MIRVS are the bomb u can take out anything clear a room a spot whatever.

Soldier - Sully had a very good description of the soldier!!

Pyro - a napalm grenede is enough to kill a sg two will kill the engy wacking the sg and then the sg. From a distance the rockets kill the engy and destroy the SG. since the pyro rockets don't do as much damage it will take the pyro a while to destroy an sg with the rocket.

Spy - it's a given #1 enemy of the SG's

Snipa - one shot one sg!! need to say more?

I hope this helps everybody who wants to take out an SG and engys how to protect your sg's

Sorry about the long post I'm leaving now

Mortem-TPF

[NiGhTmArE]

wow nice post john. thats the longest post ive ever seen in my life!!!!
i read about half of it but i had to go play tfc on the ville.

CYA
NiGhTmArE

[Goldom]

Anyone know the console commands for 3 things? (posted here cause 2 are engy thingys)

I somehow managed to bind over all three, so I need the thing you'd type in like bind "X" "???"

Detonate Dispenser - ?
Drop pack / flag - ?
Screenshot - ?

[Warhammer]

"detdispenser" is the console command to blow up your dispenser.

Dropping packs and dropping flags are two different binds. Not sure about the console command offhand but both can be set in the config. By default X drops packs and C drops flags.

F5 will make a .BMP screenshot in your TFC directory.