[FragFailure]

Greebo I hope you're happy about this. You've purposefully started this "discussion" up by bitching about every joke that comes down the pike. You've been looking for this since the first joke came out. You've gotten a response from almost everyone on the server. If you think we are going to stop what we think is right and not offend you...forget it. Nobody is agreeing with you except Maian and to an extent maybe SuperZero. Do you know what they call people on messageboards that purposefully start these things? They are called trolls and usually flamed to hell for it. Consider us nice for discussing this with you. Can we all just agree to disagree? Can't you just bite your lip when we Americans do these jokes? I want to see more of them Since we personally can't wring Bin Laden's neck ourselves...this releases some of our tension by laughing.

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[Greebo]

[Hamese]

I felt left out by not having said anything, while everyone else had posted. There was so much to read i didn't get any thing, so I repeat, just stop reading.

We are targeting military/taliban structures. Such as airbases, training camps and the taliban HQ. We bomb the airbases and anti-aircraft guns for no other reason than to own the air space above aganistan. Yes, civillians were killed in the bombings, and I know that we are not going to get bin laden by dropping bombs. We are clearing the way for our ground troops to get in. So many american lives have been spent so far, way give up more to send troops in now, when we can clear the hazards and then attack by ground.

Not all but I would say most of the targets were outside of cities. If we didn't care for the afgani's, why are we dropping so much food. I would have to say that I dont ever remember in history class learning about giving food to people that we just bombed. I was acutualy suprised at this happining, so that has got to stand for a little something.


The answer for killing is not killing (right off). This is more than the first time that bin laden has attacked us. Every other time, like when clinton was in office, we did "slap them on the wrist" but nothing came of it. Now it is not a battle, it is a WAR. A war that bin laden felt he needed to start. And sad as it is innocent people die in wars. Like the 6,000 + in NYC. The world would not be what it is today without WWI, WWII, etc...

Thats it, sorry for extending the post even more

[ROOFCUTTER]

Thats pretty good BadaBing if it were only true.

I think Greebo is showing signs of being a post Llama and needs his keys bound to oroogle and bleep.

[FragFailure]

No Greebo you outlined the plan. We are bombing military targets in the city, which is necessary. If you want to keep being a troll go right ahead. No sense in trying to argue with you. But I think you are wrong and your logic is flawed. It's idealistic and doesn't apply in real life.

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[Greebo]

Ohhhhhhhhh!
I get it!
A troll is someone who disagrees with Fragfailure - I'll remember that next time.

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[Maian]

Hey Roof, what you said about binding Greebos keys to ofoogle and bleep are just what you said you didnt want to do. That is that you want to silence him so as he cannot make his opinion heard. And do any of you really think that we'll actually hit bin laden? (I refuse to capitalize his name). No!!!, we wont!!! And as for "making him pay the price", how is he paying? were bombing Afghanistan, not his bases. Were just hitting random spots. Would you destroy someones house to make their neighbor pay? Thats what were doing. Or rather, were just hitting innocent people for no reason. Actually that was a prety good idea about giving him a sex change. He would be discriminated in his own land for being a woman, and therefore, not be able to do any harm to anyone. Now, I'm agreeing to stop this.

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[Bakuryu]

I'm still having trouble seeing how politics and TFC have anything in common.

[FragFailure]

Greebo you are pissing me off. A troll is a person who starts controversy for the sake of it. You did it, not me. Sitting there baiting people into this. Read your posts who keeps acting like the hippie here protesting everything. You know what? Your opinion and mine means squat to what the govt of the US chooses to do. I'm done before this really gets personal. You are doing a damn fine job of pissing me off. However, I still think you are wrong. Keep protesting. Nobody cares. It's apparent of that because the bombings will continue and the afghani jokes will continue. So you can't win no matter how loud you cry about it.

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[ This Message was edited by: FragFailure on 2001-10-15 21:25 ]

[Greebo]

I was not being controversial for the sake of it
I was posting my opinions, as I saw fit.

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[FragFailure]

Uh huh like no politics on the messageboard

[{e4}JagerMiester]

Well, well, politics, not something I would normally find on avanti message boards, but then again I am a n00b . A warning, it is large.

Greebo, the fact of the matter is, we aren’t attacking bin laden. We are attacking a terrorist organization, which, for the most part, believes the death of a Muslim to further their cause, is a perfectly acceptable death. There fore several targets that must be destroyed lie near civilian areas, for purposes of a type of moral cover. They figure they are safer buried among the masses. Now these targets are going to be taken out by ground forces. But some will have to be removed from the air. We do plan a ground assault. While bombs will never win this war, they are necessary to a safe ground assault.

By dropping food we are by no means doing it simply for charity. This is as much a popularity war as a war on terrorism. Like it or not the majority of the Muslim world hates us, based on the fact that the religion, often calls for a Theocracy, which is, like a Communistic government, the enemy of Democracy. Theocracy and Democracy, will never work together, one must fall. If you read the 10th Federalist Paper, you will realize this. Theocracy shapes the people, the people shape Democracy, and naturally if the people do not all think the same then they cannot exist in a Theocracy. This is a war to remove Theocracy from the country. It is a war to remove the idea that everyone who is different is bad, in a country that is drilled this. While it sounds like war is a poor choice as a device to convince, it is our only option. We have to take the entire government out of power, we have to root out the terrorist/religious sects, and we have to do that, while not turning other Theocracies and Civilians of those Theocracies, against us.

The civilians in Afghanistan, for the most part, do not have a problem with the Talaban. A ground assault is like wise an extremely dangerous action, because it can be seen as an oppressive action, which really, it is. There fore if we carefully bomb targets and bid time, we can soften the actually oppressiveness of the assault. If we can walk in more, dare I say casually, instead of gun toting maniacs (which, if we are fighting a difficult ground war, it will look like), handing out food, radios and what not, it will be easier to calm the populace and remove the Talaban from existence.

This is very much a holy war; just one side’s ‘religion’ is Democracy. You cannot have the existence of heavy religion in a Democracy; Israel proves this by not being able to cope with the other factions of populace. Religion in its essence is unified belief, which for any political American, should be seen as a threat (Read the faction part of Federalist Paper 10). Luckily we have several religions, most of which are understanding of other religions. Allowing us all to have Jewish, Catholic, Taoist, or Muslim (Sorry if I overlapped or got stuff wrong/left someone out, I am not a religion buff.) friends and family, without ‘theoretical’ fear of persecution (at least not by government).

And, I bet I did not even come close to all the plans our government has made. Many of you would like to think it, but politicians and government are not stupid, they know what they are doing. So Robert E. Lee, I applaud your decision for patriotism, and putting your faith in government, we should all do so a little more often.

Frag, I am sorry, but if you don’t like the argument, don’t go off on Greebo, his points are valid, if a bit short sighted. You are allowed to not read posts after all.

I hope that was coherant.

[Greebo]

I have to pick up on one point - I won't bother with the rest or I'll be accused of being political etc.
There a very good reason why the people of Afghanistan don't have much of a problem with the Taleban right now.
The Taleban have been the first leaders they've had to bring some sort of stability to the country.
Previously they'd been at war for over 2 decades - hence why much of the country is rubble.
The Taleban the came along and, for the most part, the fighting has stopped (I say for the most part cos there's still minor civil war activity).
But they have offered a small degree of stability.


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[ROOFCUTTER]

Go live their Greebo you will see how great it is. Got a beard? Heaven save you if your a women. Haha try singing one of your songs out loud. Can you say bullet in the back of your head. It will be your ass but they will do with it what they want.
What Ive seen is they were welcomed at first but now are to extreme for most.
It may not be our place to help them but they invited us to the party.

[Bada Bing]

THINK ABOUT IT!

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and Injured
1,000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military
personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and
punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19
and injured 200 U.S. military personnel; Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and
injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S.
sailors; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and
punished.

Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 7,000 people in
NewYork and Washington, D.C. that are now dead would be alive today.



AN INTERESTING QUESTION:

This question was raised on a Philly radio call-in show. Without
casting stones, it is a legitimate question.

There are two men, both extremely wealthy. One develops relatively cheap
software and gives billions of dollars to charity. The other sponsors
terrorism. That being the case, why is it that the Clinton
Administration spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the past
eight years than Osama bin Laden?

THINK ABOUT IT!

It is a strange turn of events. Hillary gets $8 Million for her
forthcoming memoir. Bill gets about $12 Million for his memoir yet
to be written. This from two people who have spent the past 8 years
being unable to recall anything about past events while under oath!
Incredible!

THINK ABOUT IT!