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kamikaze
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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royce, i have a vaporizer on order. i've heard the way my parents cough in the morning because they have smoked ciggs for years. by using a vaporizer, i get pure thc, no smoke or carcinogens. here's a link to a study:
http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizers.html
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Lhiannan_Shee
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| kamikaze wrote: | royce, i have a vaporizer on order. i've heard the way my parents cough in the morning because they have smoked ciggs for years. by using a vaporizer, i get pure thc, no smoke or carcinogens. here's a link to a study:
http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizers.html |
In my opinion, the best vaporizer out there is the BC Vaporizer. Check them out at:
www.bcvaporizer.com
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Mike
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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thats just asking to ruin/end people's lives
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Stevo
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kamikaze
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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yes, it's ruining people's lives by taking the potentially cancer causing agents out of smoking marijuana.
i realize that many of you are very straight edge and have been brainwashed by the government or health organizations or whatever. i do agree that drugs do have a detrimental effect on your health. in that same breath, so does french fries, hamburgers, beer, soda, etc. my point is that if done in moderation, (which i have already established, i conform to this point) that it isn't THAT bad for you.
if you were to take away everything that was bad for your health, we'd live very boring and bland lives. i can respect your CHOICE to not do drugs, just leave me alone about my CHOICE to do them.
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Mike
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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no, if you look closely its the car adapter version. and if you think about it,
smoking pot+driving=bad
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KopiKat
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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lol mike has a very good point, wtf's up with the car adapter?
On another note, Kamikaze, why is it bad that we trust our health organizations when they say something is bad for our health? Does it not make sense? Are you so sure you havent been brainwashed by the dealers and addicts who are providing your information for you?
-KK
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Potato-VS-
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lhiannan_Shee wrote: |
Yeah, I've seen people do some pretty messed up stuff on crack. How the heck do you honestly justify putting being high on "crack or weed" in the same category???????? Crack/cocaine is illegal for a very good reason. Marijuana is not. What do potheads do? Get stoned, listen to music, and giggle at cartoons??? Crack and weed are nowhere near alike.
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You are right in a way but under certain circumstances I think you're wrong... There's no difference between someone who drives a car while high on crack and someone who drives a car when high on weed. In both instances you put yourself and those around you at risk.
Consider this: how many people die every year because of drunk driving? Thousands, correct?
How many people die each year from a driver being high on some kind of drug? Thousands, once again.
Imagine, if you will, what it would be like to the safety of drivers, pedestrians, etc if BOTH weed and alcohol were legally available to the general public. How many more people would be killed because of drivers under the influence? How many more young individuals would drive while under the influence because of this?
That is the reason (in a multitude of others) why drugs - apart from alcohol - are not legal.
| kamikaze wrote: | | i realize that many of you are very straight edge and have been brainwashed by the government or health organizations or whatever. |
It has nothing to do with being "brainwashed" at all. The authorities in the respective government agencies that are responsible for these findings are:
a) experts in their field of study, they know more then a normal teenager (or even an adult for that matter) would,
b) the see the statistics about the positives/negatives of all drugs, once again they therefore know more then an average person would.
Logically - or at least to me it seems as being logical - I would listen to those who see and understand these findings and appreciate what their professional opinion on the matter is. Simply because they - in all likely hood - know more about the topic then I do. They have hundreds of sources of information, where as I - or any other average person - might not have access to.
Last edited by Potato-VS- on Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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5th GHG E.G. Mine
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Potato-VS-
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree, unfortunately this is the way that this debate goes. It reaches an impasee. You, in all honesty, can argue from either side. In a way, this is the prime example of the dual nature of man. |
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5th GHG E.G. Mine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Potato-VS- wrote: | | dual nature of man. |
...Must....resist....posting picture....of.............ah, hell:
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Lhiannan_Shee
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Location: Edmonton, AB Guild: TVR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Potato-VS- wrote: | | Lhiannan_Shee wrote: |
Yeah, I've seen people do some pretty messed up stuff on crack. How the heck do you honestly justify putting being high on "crack or weed" in the same category???????? Crack/cocaine is illegal for a very good reason. Marijuana is not. What do potheads do? Get stoned, listen to music, and giggle at cartoons??? Crack and weed are nowhere near alike.
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You are right in a way but under certain circumstances I think you're wrong... There's no difference between someone who drives a car while high on crack and someone who drives a car when high on weed. In both instances you put yourself and those around you at risk.
Consider this: how many people die every year because of drunk driving? Thousands, correct?
How many people die each year from a driver being high on some kind of drug? Thousands, once again.
Imagine, if you will, what it would be like to the safety of drivers, pedestrians, etc if BOTH weed and alcohol were legally available to the general public. How many more people would be killed because of drivers under the influence? How many more young individuals would drive while under the influence because of this?
That is the reason (in a multitude of others) why drugs - apart from alcohol - are not legal. |
i pulled this quote from www.drugabuse.gov :
| Quote: | | Driving and marijuana do not mix; that's the bottom line," said Dr. Stephen J. Heishman, a research psychologist in the Clinical Pharmacology Branch of NIDA's Division of Intramural Research. Figures from previous studies of automobile accident victims show that from 6 to 12 percent of nonfatally injured drivers and 4 to 16 percent of fatally injured drivers had tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their bloodstream, Dr. Heishman said. One study showed that 32 percent of drivers in a shock trauma unit in Baltimore had marijuana in their bloodstream, he noted. However, in most of these studies, the majority of subjects who tested positive for THC also tested positive for alcohol, making it difficult to single out THC's effect on driving. |
All I can say in regards to that is, duh! I think that percent of people smoke pot. It stays in the bloodstream for quite a while. The fact that they have it in their bloodstream is misleading. Very misleading. If I was in an accident and tested for marijuana, it would be positive. But I, personally, NEVER drive intoxicated on anything. It is also very interesting to note that most of the people w/ thc in their blood were also drunk though.....
Read this article http://www.norml.org.nz/Marijuana/Driving.htm :
| Quote: | The largest study ever done linking road accidents with drugs and alcohol has found drivers with cannabis in their blood were no more at risk than those who were drug-free. In fact, the findings by a pharmacology team from the University of Adelaide and Transport SA showed drivers who had smoked marijuana were marginally less likely to have an accident than those who were drug-free.
A study spokesman, Dr Jason White, said the difference was not great enough to be statistically significant but could be explained by anecdotal evidence that marijuana smokers were more cautious and drove more slowly because of altered time perception. The study of 2,500 accidents, which matched the blood alcohol levels of injured drivers with details from police reports, found drug-free drivers caused the accidents in 53.5 per cent of cases.
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Honestly speaking, I believe more tests need to be done in regards to the effects of marijuana. Those studies should also be brought into light, rather than hidden away from the public by our governments.
| Potato-VS- wrote: |
It has nothing to do with being "brainwashed" at all. The authorities in the respective government agencies that are responsible for these findings are:
a) experts in their field of study, they know more then a normal teenager (or even an adult for that matter) would,
b) the see the statistics about the positives/negatives of all drugs, once again they therefore know more then an average person would.
Logically - or at least to me it seems as being logical - I would listen to those who see and understand these findings and appreciate what their professional opinion on the matter is. Simply because they - in all likely hood - know more about the topic then I do. They have hundreds of sources of information, where as I - or any other average person - might not have access to. |
Hmm, maybe YOU would appreciate their findings... except for when they contradict your opinion. To quote my earlier post:
| Lhiannan_Shee wrote: | | In fact, following the publication of two 1977 JAMA studies, the American Medical Association (AMA) officially announced its support for the decriminalization of marijuana. |
On November 1, the American Public Health Association (APHA) Governing Council passed a resolution supporting doctors' ability to prescribe marijuana to their patients. It is widely documented that the American Health Association does support medical use of marijuana in some patients, as well as having announced that they support decriminalization.
| http://www.ndsn.org/jan96/medmari.html wrote: | Resolution number 9513, entitled "Access to Therapeutic Marijuana/Cannabis," asks Congress and President Clinton to make cannabis available through the Investigational New Drug Program. The resolution also supports more research into the medical benefits of marijuana and into ways to reduce the harm associated with smoking marijuana. The resolution was passed at the APHA's 123rd Annual Meeting in San Diego.
Network participant Mary Lynn Mathre, R.N. played a critical role in bringing this issue to the APHA Council. |
I have already posted quite a large post detailing the harms and benefits of marijuana. There are countless HEALTH related government organizations (other than AMA as well)that support the medical use of marijuana. read this article related to that:
http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/medical_community_united_in_supp.htm
ANYWAY, to say that we should all just be happy little law abiding citizens and trust our government is doing what is best for us by making marijuana illegal......... is complete crap. The goverment has its reasons for keeping marijuana illegal........ but sadly enough, none of the reasons are health related! So please stop hiding behind that excuse. In fact, various states have also voted for the decriminalization or legalization of marijuana, only to have been bullied into changing that by the federal goverment. I'm watching that same bullying from the USA go on right now over Canada's future decriminalization. You should be trying to figure out why your government is trying so damn hard to keep a drug illegal that could help ease the suffering of so many people. Sure, I have no real medical reason to toke, but I still enjoy it, and believe in its medicinal properties.
No matter how many links/facts I post.... I probably won't change anyone's opinion (as i doubt anyone even is reading these long-winded, confusing posts of mine). But, this is a topic that I believe strongly in and thus can not resist supporting my viewpoint.
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KopiKat
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | As for the friends whose lives have been "ruined" by their criminal records, I believe that is even MORE reason to decriminalize marijuana. |
Lets just take a thought tour of possible futures here for a minute.
So, lets start to decriminalize things that are illegal because the punishments for committing these illegal acts ruin their lives.
We'll start small: running red lights for example. It can be said that if you are careful, running red lights poses little danger to you, and can get you where you are going faster. So, take away the criminal aftermath of running red lights. At first, people will be doing it cautiously (we would like to think that wouldn't we), and the detrimental side effects will be minute. But soon, people will become more and more reckless and soon we will be having 200 casualties a day at every intersection in North America. As a result people will no longer use the roads, and as a further result they wont buy cars. Soon the economy will collapse because all the oil companies, car companies, steel companies, refineries, international trade industries will have gone out of business. When the economy collapses, countries of the world will take advantage of this and invade, destroying the US and Canada, and turning it into a dictatorship. Sounds great eh? It will take more than 50 years for this all to happen, so it's not your problem right?
Now lets move on to somethin a little more serious: the decriminalization of marijuana. First we make it legal, and even put some restrictions on it, such as having to be 21 to obtain it. So, lets see what will happen: first, people will start to purchase the stuff and use it responsibly (or so we'd love to believe). But soon all the 18 year olds, and then 16 year olds, and then 12 year olds, will be purchasing fake ID's, or stealing it, or getting their corrupt parents to buy it for them. They will all be toking up, along with the rest of the nation, and soon the number of traffic fatalaties will skyrocket by another 4 million per year. In addition, everyone will be getting lung cancer from an additional source, and things like medicare and medicaid will be forced into bankrupcy earlier than they already are because of the tremendous load of cancer patients and car wreck victims. Fights over marijuana will be rampant, just like with alcohol, and people being intoxicated on the job will be even more prevalent. Soon the governments will either go under from bankruptcy, or have to declare martial law in order to restore civility to the North American continent. Thus people will either revolt and destroy the government because they cant get off their need for a fix, or they will be taken over by a communist dictatorship. Sounds like fun right, no harm in decriminalizing marijuana right?
Do we even have to discuss what would happen if we were to decriminalize something as serious as murder or espionage?
The fundamental flaw that you are leaning on to support your argument is that you believe people will be just as responsible as you are with Marijuana. The problem is that they WON'T. This is glaringly evident with alcohol, as something like half a million people die in alcohol related accidents per year, regardless of numerous campains to prevent people from drinking irresponsibly or underage. Do you want substance abuse fatalaties to shoot up by a million people? I sure as hell dont, i think we have enough fatalaties from substance abuse as it is.
Not everyone is going to be as responsible as you are Lhian. I commend you for your responsibility, it gives me alot of hope for the future of controlled substances, but unfortunately not many out there are like you. |
Figured i'd just repost an earlier post of mine, seeing as how it still applies and apparently nobody read it.
-KK
P.S. Oh yeah, and EVERY state in which it was voted apon, legal marijuana was voted down by a large margin. The government had nothing to do with it, it was the people's decision.
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Lhiannan_Shee
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| KopiKat wrote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | As for the friends whose lives have been "ruined" by their criminal records, I believe that is even MORE reason to decriminalize marijuana. |
Lets just take a thought tour of possible futures here for a minute.
So, lets start to decriminalize things that are illegal because the punishments for committing these illegal acts ruin their lives.
We'll start small: running red lights for example. It can be said that if you are careful, running red lights poses little danger to you, and can get you where you are going faster. So, take away the criminal aftermath of running red lights. At first, people will be doing it cautiously (we would like to think that wouldn't we), and the detrimental side effects will be minute. But soon, people will become more and more reckless and soon we will be having 200 casualties a day at every intersection in North America. As a result people will no longer use the roads, and as a further result they wont buy cars. Soon the economy will collapse because all the oil companies, car companies, steel companies, refineries, international trade industries will have gone out of business. When the economy collapses, countries of the world will take advantage of this and invade, destroying the US and Canada, and turning it into a dictatorship. Sounds great eh? It will take more than 50 years for this all to happen, so it's not your problem right? |
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You can hardly compare marijuana laws to running red lights.... and what makes you so sure what you have described would happen? That is your GUESS as to what would happen. Personally, I think abolishing red light rules would be a lot more serious than decriminalization of marijuana. And they did give people making right-hand turns the right to run a red light, and it has worked! I see very few accidents caused from it, let alone people stopping to drive.....
| KopiKat wrote: | | Now lets move on to somethin a little more serious: the decriminalization of marijuana. First we make it legal, and even put some restrictions on it, such as having to be 21 to obtain it. So, lets see what will happen: first, people will start to purchase the stuff and use it responsibly (or so we'd love to believe). But soon all the 18 year olds, and then 16 year olds, and then 12 year olds, will be purchasing fake ID's, or stealing it, or getting their corrupt parents to buy it for them. They will all be toking up, along with the rest of the nation, and soon the number of traffic fatalaties will skyrocket by another 4 million per year. In addition, everyone will be getting lung cancer from an additional source, and things like medicare and medicaid will be forced into bankrupcy earlier than they already are because of the tremendous load of cancer patients and car wreck victims. Fights over marijuana will be rampant, just like with alcohol, and people being intoxicated on the job will be even more prevalent. Soon the governments will either go under from bankruptcy, or have to declare martial law in order to restore civility to the North American continent. Thus people will either revolt and destroy the government because they cant get off their need for a fix, or they will be taken over by a communist dictatorship. Sounds like fun right, no harm in decriminalizing marijuana right? |
Uhmm, people can still smoke now. What makes you think that so many more people will start smoking when it becomes decriminalized? There are things like vaporizers out there, which drastically reduce the danger to your lungs. Anyone who wants to toke up these days should be able to find marijuana anyway, including 12 year olds. Hell, I think the very first time I smoked pot I was 12 years old, and in 7th grade. I didn't start smoking regularily til I was in my early 20s though. I have also previously posted the results of studies which actually have indicated that drivers w/ THC in their system are just as likely, and in one even LESS likely than sober drivers to get into accidents. Your guess as to what would happen is unfounded. People can get it easily now without any need for theivery or fake IDs....
| KopiKat wrote: | | Do we even have to discuss what would happen if we were to decriminalize something as serious as murder or espionage? |
No, because that is NOT what we are discussing, nor have anything to do w/ this topic.
| KopiKat wrote: |
The fundamental flaw that you are leaning on to support your argument is that you believe people will be just as responsible as you are with Marijuana. The problem is that they WON'T. This is glaringly evident with alcohol, as something like half a million people die in alcohol related accidents per year, regardless of numerous campains to prevent people from drinking irresponsibly or underage. Do you want substance abuse fatalaties to shoot up by a million people? I sure as hell dont, i think we have enough fatalaties from substance abuse as it is.
Not everyone is going to be as responsible as you are Lhian. I commend you for your responsibility, it gives me alot of hope for the future of controlled substances, but unfortunately not many out there are like you. |
There is completely no evidence to support that ANYONE has ever died from marijuana usage. Drivers on marijuana are as likely to get into an accident as a total sober person. In my opinion, marijuana is nowhere near as bad for the body as alcohol, nor does it impair you in the same manner. Studies have also indicated that, despite some misconceptions, marujuana has not proven to be a gateway drug. In the Netherlands, where marijuana was decriminalized, use of other, harder drugs, had actually went down!!!! That would be a damn good thing for America.
I know lots of people like me... perfectly law abiding, intellegent individuals, who toke. If you met me on the street, you would not know I smoke marijuana, as I am not quite as open about it as I am online. We are not the kind of people who just walk down the street toking up (unless it happens to be at Hempfest or something). For example, once when I was in California, I went with a friend and their mother to watch their marijuana dealer (and mom's best friend)'s house (the dealer was also a registered nurse btw) and handle business w/ them. They only sell to responsible adults. I was actually quite surprised at the people who came and bought. They appeared, in all aspects, to be responsible adults. Nice cars, professional. One guy was even a lawyer. I have also known cops who toke, nurses, doctors, etc.
I have also smoked herb w/ my mother-in-law before. You would not guess she smokes either. It made me feel quite weird that she would toke w/ her kids, but she didn't do it in front of her kids til they were adults, and when they were children she didnt even smoke at all.
When you get rid of criminal penalty for marijuana use, it also takes away a lot of the stigmata about it.... that teenage mentality where you have to get into trouble.... I bet it would make it a lot less fun/appealing to a lot of teenagers. Maybe some proper education would help children... and even all of the brainwashed adults out there too! Seriously though, people have their own free will, and I believe they should have the right to decide what they want to do, knowing all the benefits as well as risks involved. In all likelyhood, if it were decriminalized, some people who may not have had access to marjuana (aka are too shy to hang out in certain places or make friends) may start smoking. I don't feel that would be detrimental at all though... and why would tons of people just start smoking? They wouldnt!
| KopiKat wrote: | Figured i'd just repost an earlier post of mine, seeing as how it still applies and apparently nobody read it.
-KK
P.S. Oh yeah, and EVERY state in which it was voted apon, legal marijuana was voted down by a large margin. The government had nothing to do with it, it was the people's decision. |
Oh I did read your post, but figured I already have had quite a few long-winded posts myself in regards to this. I had also posted statistics contradicting your claims.... but since you asked, i shall comment once more 
And actually, Oregon has already decriminalized marijuana....and things arent very bad in that state at all. In fact, its probably my favorite state. Esspecially since it's the one where my hubby is from I think the fine may have increased to $500-$1000, but it is still the same criminally.... which is, well, its not criminal! Just a big fine to teach you a lesson. See this link about marijuana in Oregon:
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library%5Cblachly2.cfm
Alaska also has privacy laws protecting people found w/ under four ounces in their home:
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/356/alaska.shtml
Sure, Alaska's vote failed, but came close. There are still a lot of people out there brainwashed by the governments and all that propaganda. I think in time though, more people will accept marijuana, and see that it really isnt so bad afterall.
To anyone who wants to learn more about America's prohibition of marijuana, I HIGHLY recommend watching the documentary "Grass" which is narrated by Woody Harrelson. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000633SE/002-1061855-6213639?v=glance
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Rebel_Rouser
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I will just post something short and simple.
You can argue the pros/cons of this drug and why it should or should not be legal till you turn blue for all I care. But the fact still remains marijuana is illegal. Therefore it is dubed by this society and government as being wrong. So if your using this drug, your breaking the law. So if you get caught you should suffer the consequences.
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