[Potato-VS-]

Now first let potato say that this reflects potato's view and by no means reflects others BUT potato just had to talk about it SOMEWHERE.

Yesterday was Remembrance Day across the globe. Thousands of people took the time to remember those who GAVE their lives for freedom and democracy. While potato believes this is a good thing - it made potato think about his mortality and what could possibly happen to potato if he chose to join the army. It also severely angered potato. Not about remembering lost and fallen soldiers but about PROTESTS. Now personally when it’s someone's funeral you don’t go and say how horrible they were. You try to remember what they DID that made a difference for you and others in life. To potato it’s the same with Remembrance Day. However, potato DOESNT agree IN ANYWAY with protestors marching along and protesting the current "war" (even though it’s technically declared OVER) in Iraq.
Now many of you are thinking "that’s really only veterans and so forth" well that’s true they are protesting the "war" - like others. However, when a place such as a school (potato's school specifically!) decides to mention and try to form a protest against the war - forcing people to stay AND listen (the teachers WOULDNT let anyone leave the room AT ALL we HAD to stay and listen to the protests and "hippies" give their general complaints about the Bush Admin and America in general) it is being taken too far. Forcing people to stay and listen to something that they do not want to hear is NOT right by any means. Schools and teachers in general SHOULD know this!
Now, potato is fine with protesting. HOWEVER once he is forced to sit and listen - even though he shares a different point of view - it is being taken too far. Remembrance Day is NOT about protesting WAR - though it could be if you looked at it in a different view - it’s about respect for people who GAVE their lives so we can life in peace and freedom. Its about men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and the ideas of the free world. Dragging in politics and protests is wrong and SHOULD NOT occur.

That’s all,
<TVB>Potato

[Violent Pacifist]

Agreed. The reason for it is simple, however. People are idiots, through and through, that like to think they are smart. While some people make valid protests, most of the them just gather in the streets yelling "OMG I hate Bush!1!!!!!!!!!!!!1!@@212!! He started the HoLoCaUsT?!?!?!?!!2!!!!1!!!! PROTEST WAR!@#&^(!^&#)!@"
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We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

[[HALO]cpt._Keyes]

i will make it my lifes mission to pimp slap everyone who protests war....the only reason war gets worse and worse...is now adays no one stands up for the global laws...and hippies are under drug induced illusions that peace will prevail....BS...privately hate the war in ur domicile....support our troops publicly...they are the ones fighting to keep ur @$$ in the house u live in and give you the annoying right to protest one of the only 2 sure things of humanity....we will fight each other
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You dont know who I am but you will instantly fall in love with my voice, chances are I will be the best thing you have heard your whole life, I am the voice of the angels.
Coast Guard Radiomen
-K.Jeffrey(cpt_Keyes)

[ROOFCUTTER]

ROOF thinks different of Potato now, Potato has head on top of potato.
Well ROOF always thougth potato had head but ROOF thinks potatos head is way beyond his age.

We broke out our families war history which includes actual newspapers clipping of who died where and when. (ww2 era)
It was very sad. along with our own there were many from that area that died. Many from the same families died. I think seeing it in actual newsprint and reading the stories about specific individuals leaves a clearer picture of the seriousness and horrors of war.

I really never fully appreciated the fact that my grandma lost her husband and a son. her other son (lucky for me) survived. Her pain must of been great. Multiply that by just about every mom in the world at that time and the amount of pain and suffering is just staggering.

Protest tomorrow. today is to honor the dead. the lucky living and to re-affirm war is the last choice.
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Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering.

[Monk]

Protesters piss me off too. They usually have no idea what they are talking about and are just protesting to fit in with their anarchist, hippie, or whatever friends. However, some people who speak out against war do have some very interesting things to say. MLK, Ghandi, and even as far back as Jesus (yes he was a historical figure - all religious stuff aside). Tanks and bombs won't fix the underlying hatred that our enemies feel towards us. You might be able to keep them down, but that only breeds a stronger hatred. Sure, I can hate the hater, or rape the raper (props to Marilyn Manson) but that will not make the situation better.

Now in terms of more modern protesters (i.e. the Bush era), even some of them have reason to complain. It is a bit scary to think that our government is spending 396 billion dollars in 2003 on its military, over six times as much as any other country, and an amount equal to the combined budgets of the next 20 countries on the military budget list. Why do we have to spend so much more than everyone else on our military? Is it because we have more enemies? And if we have more enemies, maybe we should be asking ourselves why instead of just trying to keep them at bay. Yes, we need to protect our country, but is this kind of gross spending really necessary when we still have starving people in our cities? And if we need to be such a large presence around the world, couldn't it be to help people non-militarily? With the amount of problems that we have here in our country (from unemployment, education deficits, and just general poverty), it seems to me this money could be better spent.

But maybe I am not seeing the whole picture. I would love to hear someone explain why we need to be spending such a large amount on our military.

I hope you don't mind me quoting our beloved former President Dwight D. Eisenhower when he said "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Yes, we must protect ourselves, but we must also take care of our domestic problems. Maybe we could even out the budget a bit and still live safe and happy lives while we are helping our own countrymen.
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Amen!
<TVB>Monk - Burning HWGs since 2001.
Now located at The Pensive Penguin.

[Monk]

I am sorry, I didn't mean to start preaching in this thread. You are right, we must honor those who laid down their lives so that we can live in freedom, and we must take a minute out from our daily lives to remember them. Thanks for bringing this to my attention Potato. I didn't even realize today was significant in any way.

[Azrael]

I went to the marine corps birthday ball at the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars, for those that don't know) on the 10th. Let me just say that I've never met a better group of people in my life. These guys (and gals) Were about the nicest people I could have met, and just being able to sit around with them and swap stories was fantastic. There were many there who had been in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, as well as many of the engagements afterwards. One of the things I noticed is that many of them has a strong desire to enjoy what time they have. I noticed that not a single one of them told me a story about pain and suffering, but most seemed to focus on things that happened after they served, or they happened here in the states. They've chosen to live life to the fullest, and enjoy it for all it's worth.

On a side note, a friend of mine wen to a veteran's home in Mississippi. She told me about many of the people she met there, and about the things they told her. What seemed to touch them the most was the fact that young people stopped by to say hello and to sit with them, as many no longer have families, and many of their friends have passed on. I would just like to encourage everyone to try and do something like this for those that have served in years past. It's a simple gesture that means the worl to them. Maybe someday the old man wishing he had a visitor will be me, or maybe Roof, or Verman, or many of the people you talk to every day here, you never know. I would appreciate a visit, and I have a feeling these guys would too.
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Under construction!!!

[Monk]

Amen Az. Reaching out in the community is a great way to make a difference in the world. Even if it just means brightening up the day for one old man, that good deed is worth doing.
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Amen!
<TVB>Monk - Burning HWGs since 2001.
Now located at The Pensive Penguin.

[Potato-VS-]

Potato doesnt know - yesterday was remberance day for canada - is it veterans day today? Potato understand the whole spending thing but when you consider that the states has participated in two significant military campaigns in the past 3 years its alot of money. All the ammunition and bombs dropped cost tons - 1000 lb bombs are what 5000 - 10000 USD or something? Not to mention the high-tech helicopters. Feeding the soldiers, and paying them - although potato bets that some of them would still be over there if they werent paid . Although, you should remember that even peace keepers get killed - 17 italians today, red cross, and so forth in iraq, 2 canadian soldiers in afganistan.

Potato doesnt mind any "preaching" or anything like that. Thats why potato really started this thread to get people talking.

Its good to see some feed back. Yes potato has a head on his body roof .
<TVB>Potato

[Azrael]

Veteran's Day was the 11th, I r a day late. The weird thing is I thought this was a national holiday, but apparently I am mistaken. When I talked to my friend, she was leaving school because she had classes that day. At the time I really didn't think much about it, but now that I have had the chance to sit for a spell, I think it's kind of weak that we give a day off for Columbus, who did nothing more than get lost and enslave an entire race of indiginous people, and the veterans don't get the same treatment.




On the topic of the defense budget, there are several things that need to be factored in when talking about why our budget is so high. A good portion of that is the current operational tempo throughout the world, which includes such fine locations as Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, East Timor, Pakistan, Kenya, and Haiti. The nice thing is that some of these places aren't places we've gone to because of war, but for humanitarian reasons. I myself have participated in a couple of humanitarian missions, and I've always thought they were worth the effort. But now that there are so many operations going on, the price tag goes up.

Also there is the problem with pay for the military. While there were pay jumps for servicemembers, it was widely held that military members did not receive nearly the pay or benefits that they deserved. When you consider that a civilian with my job experiences makes roughly 100,000 dollars a year (starting), I can't really argue that point. IN the past few years, there has been a big push to close that gap, which would hopefully lead to higher retention, and thereby lowering the annual training costs for the military in general (kind of a roundabout way of saying that you have to spend money to save money). Due to the wars being fought, retention for many critical MOS' has not been nearly what the military has hoped for, therefore, training costs have not fallen, instead they've gone up, because the DoD has decided that the military needs more of what they had than they did before, it's not merely keeping up with attrition, it's creating a larger workforce.

Then there is the belief that the U.S. needs to take a more active role in World politics, and nothing says "Hey, listen to me or I will kick your ass!!!" like a Division of Marines landing on your beach, and they're not there for volleyball. Some would say that the U.S. has no business dictating how other countries run themselves. Those people fail to realize this all encompassing truth, A.K.A. The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. It might sound stupid, but it is a very real part of politics in the world today. The U.S. donates more money to the world than any other nation in history. We feed hungry children in Africa, Haiti, Pakistan, Afghanistan, East Timor, and many other places in the world. What the U.S. is striving for is a solid return on its investment. We give these countries the money and food because we want stability. We don't want to rule them, we want them to be happy little peasants and such, because happy peasants don't bomb churches or skyscrapers. While it has worked in many countries, we have been forced to deal with the problems of our forebears when it comes to others. How many people know that congress approved a bill saying that Osama Bin Laden should have been taken out as far back as 1995? What did we do when they attacked the U.S.S. Cole? Practically nothing, we launched a couple of tomahawks at them, which didn't even amount to a slap on the wrist. what happened when the bombed the WTC the first time? Nothing, save a few arrests. Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie? Hmmm, we made Libya pay some money and put sanctions on them, big whoop. Don't think I'm going to take sides here politically either, cause both republicans and democrats get the responsibility here. Bush Sr. should have taken out Saddam when he had the chance, but then again hindsight is always 20/20. Why didn't we do it then? Stability, Nature abhors a vacuum, and we didn't know who would go in his place, thus he stayed. It is often stated that the devil you know is better than the one you don't, yet the one we know has bitten us on the ass one too many times, and we're tired of sitting on a rubber donut!!! Sorry for getting myself off topic, I shall now go back to my regularly scheduled programming.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that there are a lot of reasons why our defense budget has grown so much, and not all of it for good reasons, but also not for bad. I would just say that it is best to know why things have gone the way they have, than to just complain because taxes are high and we spend money on our own safety. I'm not saying no one can complain, just the opposite, an informed voter is an empowered one.


As you can see, I've had alot of time to think about these things and I had some stuff to get off my chest. Thanks for listening (errr, ummm, I mean reading).
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Under construction!!!

[Violent Pacifist]

Very nicely said Az.
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We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

[Potato-VS-]

Yea thats exactly what potatos trying to say to people but no one listens to him!

<TVB>Potato

[Bada Bing]

You should have got up and walked out I'd like to see them punish you for that.Possible lawsuit I would think
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Are you threatening me ???

[Potato-VS-]

Yea true or beins expelled / suspended like some people who complained were. Schools are so stupid now a days. Their like prisons - the schools around here arent allowed to have metal blades for scissors - they have to be plastic - and some schools in "gang" areas aren't even allowed plastic scissors!

<TVB>Potato

[Mr.Kason Allen]

Nicely done Mr.Spud

I must say...they have not a right to maketh you listen to that .What really would make me angry in that situation is just the fact of what they are doing.... I mean the people who are fighting this war have no choice and I don't think it does them much good when they turn on the Tv and see "Americans" telling them that what they are doing is wrong. Just think about it if you were over there risking your life and all you see is these pricks RAWR (and bleh alsolefull) Anyway me thinks joo should just should give the principal/teacher a square kick in the balls/groin (Or you could always break their legs kill their dog and burn down their house )
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Over your dead body!