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FragFailure
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Joined: 12 Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4219
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I still can't bunnyhop after almost three years of TFC. I've tried and tried. I can't do anything once I let the fwd key go. I've worked with no less than five people on trying to bunnyhop. The best I can do is to do my strafe and duck jump (the duck gives me an extra 5-10% based on extending the length of the jump.) I can do the figure 8 type of movement, but I can do the hop. Basically I can get to 145% (based on sparky's) with the movement. That's only about 10-15% slower than a hopper.
I have no idea if I look like I'm bunnyhopping...guess what though. It only helps to some degree even if you can. It helps somewhat against getting sniped. It helps if you are trying to break away from a group. A good defense will stop it either way. Bunnyhopping won't help you kill the enemy, but it can help make them miss.
I'd say worry more about your 1 on 1 combat skills before anything else. Worry about using the primary, shotgun, and grenades together. Learning how to shoot conced is good too if you are a defensive player. I can't shoot conced for the life of me.
Basically with my skill level which is pretty average. I'm not good enough for leagues.
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MSE
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Chen Kenichi wrote: | MSE, bhop is very commonplace now. Most members in 4a clans know how to bhop. The game is old! Many people know the game very well. The pubs are dying, and the leagues are growing. Bhop is not a leet skill, it's a necessity to compete.
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Exactly...thats what bothers me about it. Its not impossible to learn, but I don't think you should have to learn lame finger gymnastics just so you can be up to speed with your competition. It turns away alot of novice players in my opinion - they see bhoppers running around and it looks like hax, so they say 'f that, i'll go play UT CTF' or what have you. TFC at its best is more about using your brain - positioning, knowing the maps, knowing what weapons to use where, etc. Certainly aim and weapons jumping is important, but IMO bhop just reduces the amount brains needed and ups the amount of silly finger skills you need to train yourself to do.
And as for sparky/nemesis hax, I'm well aware of both programs and how to use them and yes THE SPEEDOMETER IS LAME. As is the flag timer. If you are a 'skilled' bhopper you should be able to do it by feel and not with a stupid program that tells you when you hit the cap. Hitting the cap is the danger of pushing your bhop, and by using the speedo, you remove that. Don't tell me that doesn't help players. If you can't play well without the use of a hook, you suck. |
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Blown
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Location: Medford Oregon
Posts: 4172
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MSE wrote: | | Chen Kenichi wrote: | MSE, bhop is very commonplace now. Most members in 4a clans know how to bhop. The game is old! Many people know the game very well. The pubs are dying, and the leagues are growing. Bhop is not a leet skill, it's a necessity to compete.
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Exactly...thats what bothers me about it. Its not impossible to learn, but I don't think you should have to learn lame finger gymnastics just so you can be up to speed with your competition. It turns away alot of novice players in my opinion - they see bhoppers running around and it looks like hax, so they say 'f that, i'll go play UT CTF' or what have you. TFC at its best is more about using your brain - positioning, knowing the maps, knowing what weapons to use where, etc. Certainly aim and weapons jumping is important, but IMO bhop just reduces the amount brains needed and ups the amount of silly finger skills you need to train yourself to do.
And as for sparky/nemesis hax, I'm well aware of both programs and how to use them and yes THE SPEEDOMETER IS LAME. As is the flag timer. If you are a 'skilled' bhopper you should be able to do it by feel and not with a stupid program that tells you when you hit the cap. Hitting the cap is the danger of pushing your bhop, and by using the speedo, you remove that. Don't tell me that doesn't help players. If you can't play well without the use of a hook, you suck. |
Actually some of us only have sparky to see how fast we can go on an uncapped server. I find myself glancing at it every once and a while in game but to use it to keep your speed, well that would be a disadvantage IMO cause your not paying attention to whats around ya. At least in pub play. |
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MuLiShA
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Location: OC or SD
Posts: 1050
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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btw, the flagtimer has never been included in a sparky's release.
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FragFailure
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Joined: 12 Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4219
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, I suck. Not that I've played without Sparky's every month except the last two.
Visit?
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Violent Pacifist
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1776
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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lol, I'm sorry MSE, but your statement of needing to practice "finger gymnastics" is hardly an excuse. What is being able to shoot someone into the air with a soldier and then being able to pluck him off in the air, or get even a dbl airshot? Hand and finger gymnastics...What is being able to dodge shots, rockets, and grenades? Hand and finger gymnastics...What is being able to strafe, glide, and crouch jump (which should all be okay with you - even though not EVERYONE can do them, and might turn some of the noobs away - unless you just walk around not jumping)? Hand and finger gymnastics...What is being able to rocket jump, grenade jump, conc jump, and air strafe? Hand and finger gymnastics. If you can do all of these extremely well, then you must practice your "lame hand and finger gymnastics" a lot.
Everything about this game that establishes "omg good players" from "I'm a total noob that just bought or downloaded this game" is your so called "lame finger and hand gymnastics".....
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JTHM
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Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 406
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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omg bhopping is for hackers anyway
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FragFailure
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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omg VP actually included a "duck jump" as a legit jump. What's wrong with you?
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MSE
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Excuse? for what...I told you I CAN BHOP. That doesn't mean I can't find its use lame. I always see people who bitch about bhop get cut down with the "you just can't do it, so you're jealous" crap. That ain't the case here.
Its not the same as dodging, airshotting, etc because that still requires interaction with other players, predicting player movement, and at least minimal use of ones brain. Bhopping, chopping etc don't have anything to do with other players.....its just a means of twiddling your fingers to make you go faster than you are supposed to.
I should have stated it this way...the great thing about tfc is how its set up. There's no dicking around with power ups, damage amplifiers, invulnerability, massive weapons, etc. that you see in other shooters. You spawn with everything you're going to get, and its very pure and mano e mano kind of stuff. What SHOULD separate great players from noobs is partly skills...dodging and aiming, etc, but also craftiness and guile.
One of the nice things about HL is you can script and customize your settings to your style of play. The curse that comes with this is that is you have people who, rather than learn to use their head, go about looking for every exploit, script, cvar, hook etc. to get around it. E.g. You could practice and learn how to aim conced adn predict player movement... or you could use anti-conc scripts and ex-interp to compensate for your sh** reflexes. You could learn how to deak defenders and use your nades to move them out of your way.... or you could chophop your way right past them. You could learn how to bounce pipes off walls, ceilings, etc. to make a nice pipe trap in a tight spot....or just use cl_pitchdown. I don't see how you people consider that crap 'skills' cuz it just isn't. |
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Violent Pacifist
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1776
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| MSE wrote: | Excuse? for what...I told you I CAN BHOP. That doesn't mean I can't find its use lame. I always see people who bitch about bhop get cut down with the "you just can't do it, so you're jealous" crap. That ain't the case here.
Its not the same as dodging, airshotting, etc because that still requires interaction with other players, predicting player movement, and at least minimal use of ones brain. Bhopping, chopping etc don't have anything to do with other players.....its just a means of twiddling your fingers to make you go faster than you are supposed to.
I should have stated it this way...the great thing about tfc is how its set up. There's no dicking around with power ups, damage amplifiers, invulnerability, massive weapons, etc. that you see in other shooters. You spawn with everything you're going to get, and its very pure and mano e mano kind of stuff. What SHOULD separate great players from noobs is partly skills...dodging and aiming, etc, but also craftiness and guile.
One of the nice things about HL is you can script and customize your settings to your style of play. The curse that comes with this is that is you have people who, rather than learn to use their head, go about looking for every exploit, script, cvar, hook etc. to get around it. E.g. You could practice and learn how to aim conced adn predict player movement... or you could use anti-conc scripts and ex-interp to compensate for your sh** reflexes. You could learn how to deak defenders and use your nades to move them out of your way.... or you could chophop your way right past them. You could learn how to bounce pipes off walls, ceilings, etc. to make a nice pipe trap in a tight spot....or just use cl_pitchdown. I don't see how you people consider that crap 'skills' cuz it just isn't. |
Bhop is not just used to go faster. On O, bhopping might just be the one thing that you have to use your brain the most on. Bhopping on O, sometimes even on D, is used to dodge things and confuse people. Bhopping is all about predicting player movement. Have you ever tried mulching as a soldier against a medic who KNOWS exactly how to bhop? You won't hit him, and he'll slaughter you. It's also not that easy to aim while bhopping, because of the rapid mouse movement you have to maintain.
Watch a league demo. Meds will bhop out of the way of pipe traps, rockets, grenades, etc. That's not an easy skill. Being able to ADJUST your MOVEMENT to DODGE a person's rocket after you PREDICTED where he was going to shoot, and then still be able to KILL, GET BY, or continue DODGING him as you PREDICT what he's going to do is not easy at all. Bhopping is mainly used for all that I just typed in caps. Gaining speed is just a nice advantage as well. And if you can tell me all the capitalized words do not use your brain, then I'm sorry but I must say that you're very ignorant.
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Paddyjack
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Joined: 15 Jan 2002
Location: Québec, Canada Guild: <eVa>
Posts: 1722
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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oomg HaX 
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Stevo
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Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Location: Orange County Guild: TVR
Posts: 9514
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| MSE wrote: | | If you can't play well without the use of a hook, you suck. |
I can play just fine without the sparky thing, not that I even look at the speedometer. I just like having the information, it doesn't really change how I play. It also sends messages to your team about things like flag location and where you are, so that is a good thing, right? Most people that use Sparky can probably play just fine without it.
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Whatever
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Joined: 16 Aug 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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ROFLOL! This whole post is Gizanked's fault!  LOL...
I think we can agree to disagree on bhopping...some of us hate it and don't see how it is fair, while others love it and see it as an important skill in the game.
I suggest that you play the game the way you see fit, within the rules of the server of course. Have fun...don't worry about the score or capping the flag. If someone bitches, ignore them...or even better, curse them out in the privacy of your own home. I know I do that quite often, LOL!
This thread has been pretty good overall, except for a few slams I thought was not needed.
I am out.
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Replica
Server Admin
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Location: i'm a loner dottie, a rebel!
Posts: 6144
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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yeah.. go me!!! but i had only initially meant what was th epsot about.. one post thread. turned into 5 pages or arguing, sorry aboutt hat. its jsut he said goodbye to bhopping and it was obviously still around, i r teh confused, but now i knwo he was jsut talking about the cap, i guess
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rAT bOY
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Joined: 25 Sep 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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i hate jthm he ruined this thread that hacker
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